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KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
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"A Poison Chalice" ~ Christopher Hitchens ~Video

Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:05 PM EST
religion, christianity, atheism, literature, reason
By King Dave
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Brilliant and beautiful. Hitchens left us with  more in these 7 minutes than others have in a life time.

Christopher Hitchens (1949 - 2011)

Segment from Christopher Hitchens at the Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, TX, Nov. 18th 2010. The last 30 secs are absolutely beautiful. He might have deconverted some kids at the school. Loosing Christopher would be a great loss for us all, but he won't really be gone because we will keep him alive online in videos like this and in his work . Christopher Hitchens (1949 - 2011)

 

 

 

"I attack and criticize people myself; I have no right to expect lenience in return." ~ Christopher Hitchens

 

That's good because he didn't get it, especially when he took on the Almighty Himself with his atheist polemic, "God Is Not Great." Many people asked him, he said, whether he was having second thoughts about God and the possibilities of an afterlife after hearing that his own life was about to end. Did he feel, as the old joke goes, like he was all dressed up but with no place to go?

No, he dismissed the possibility that personal emotions might overwhelm his rational side. He remained consistent, working hard and turning out more provocative prose until his end, including some poignantly brilliant insights into such symbolism-rich developments as the loss of his speaking voice. He never lost his spirit, as far as I could tell, as he turned out prose that stands as a lasting gift to those whom he leaves behind. ~

  • Clarence Page ~ The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20111225/OPINION03/112250305/-1/rss29
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    • Groups: Atheism, Christopher Hitchens, Free Thinkers, Harbingers of The Apocalypse, Psych, Soc, Philos, Theocratic Life
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    • Public Discussion (22)
    King Dave

    Thank you for watching.

    There are many great speeches by Christopher Hitchens. This is his best because he knew he was dying. He wrote in his last essay, "every passing day represents more and more relentlessly subtracted from less and less."

    He died a week later.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/01/hitchens-201201

    Please share your thoughts.

    Thanks

    • 1 vote
    Reply#1 - Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:23 PM EST
    Neetu M.

    Although I would love to admire Chris Hitchens simply because he can give an argument to those who brandish faith at one and all, although I do actually think he is incredible, the only problem I ever had with him and his work was the arrogance that seeped through. Yet, I have to agree the video is amazing, he will be missed for the enlightenment he spread through his work and arguments.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:43 PM EST
    King Dave

    I would like it if you would expound on the arrogance comment. I would find it an honor to be called stupid by him. Plus I can't find any holes in his arguments, even Iraq.

    • 1 vote
    #2.1 - Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:35 PM EST
    Neetu M.

    Let me try to explain why I say that. It is my observation that those with a belief in religion, particularly organized religion, are arrogant in their convictions because they allow for no other path but their own. This is not referring to one religion or another. I have merely observed it in people of all faiths (except Buddhists whom I have not personally encountered). They assert their views, which when you disagree with, are treated with contempt. Now, I do not possess the eloquence of Hitchens, nor the extensive knowledge based on years of study of people of faith and people without it, but I almost feel convinced that if I so abhor this arrogance in religious people, I cannot justify it in those who are without it. That is something I find runs through his writings such as when he writes about Mother Theresa, for example. I have personally a huge problem with missionaries, and yes she was a missionary, but I also believe that she made a great personal sacrifice to serve and whatever drove her to it, her faith, or instinct, it was a big thing and his statements cannot diminish it. He seemed to marvel at himself sometimes, and that to me was like the way religious leaders do, and therein lies the "arrogance" in my opinion. Having said that, I will also acknowledge that I agree with virtually every argument in favor of rationality, reason, and scientific observation he gives, I just wish he wouldn't always assume himself to be better than others. This is strictly my opinion; if you don't agree, you certainly have the right not to!

      #2.2 - Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:44 AM EST
      King Dave

      Thanks, you expressed yourself great.

      • 1 vote
      #2.3 - Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:48 PM EST
      Reply
      Kevin Mirek

      I think I heard Mr. Hitchens say words to the effect that ... he relies on future information ... and... admits to his own stupidity in this age ... or something like that. Sorry, I couldn't listen to that, yes, arrogant man again. What is he doing, if not shoving his beliefs down my throat? Does he know all? NO! Yet he delivers his "Poison Chalice" lines as though they were divinely inspired.

      Faith in a Creator, a Redeemer, in a Spirit are in the human psyche because people with no faith (like Hitchens himself) cannot summon the strength or will to say they are omniscient. So then, what is he? I'd say he is questioning and stupid ... like the rest of us. To some of us, faith in God is a more powerful and satisfying sensation than blindly admitting we know nothing. Leave us to that, if you please.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#3 - Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:12 PM EST
      King Dave

      He never calls believers stupid. Why both of you said that is telling of how you feel about your own beliefs.

      It is now possible for religious Holy Men to be so smart as to devise apocalyptic weapons and still believe using them will please their gods. This in order to bring on the Messiah to pass judgment upon what's left of Earth. The secular world believes these men and their fatalistic beliefs as to be insane. The religious believe those who hold these beliefs are Men of perfect faith.

      • 1 vote
      #3.1 - Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:33 PM EST
      Kevin Mirek

      King Dave,

      Forgive me, as this is NOT a personal attack. The thought of anyone using nuclear weapons is insane in itself, and the Catholic Church (for one) considers the existence of nuclear weapons to be one of the greatest sins commited on earth. All life is precious, even a murderer's life. That is why the Catholic Church opposes capital punishment. Those who try to share their faith with others are no different from Mr. Hitchens spewing his ignorant rhetoric. I'll ask the question again, Does Hitchens know all?" If not, then he, like the rest of us, knows nothing.

      • 1 vote
      #3.2 - Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:15 AM EST
      King Dave

      Kevin, you should have watched the last 2 minutes. Hitchens said nothing of the sort. The 9/11 hijackers were not stupid, many had Masters degrees. Science can fly us into the cosmos, religion can fly us into buildings.

      • 1 vote
      #3.3 - Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:05 PM EST
      Kevin Mirek

      King Dave,

      It's not that "cut and dried." Science gave us the nuclear weapons, science gave us a "safe" Fukushima. Science failed, and the Challenger crashed. Those are arrogant men saying, Hey, we can do this," rather than saying, Should we do this?" Science often pushes ahead without sufficient reflection.

      The Catholic Church, for all her faults, has educated some of the best scientists on the planet. Catholic Charities Worldwide gives billions to those who would otherwise have nothing. We do, occasionally, get it right.

      Mr. Hitchens, occasionally, gets it wrong, but he will not admit to that uncertainty. His is absolute dogma, if I may borrow a word form my Church.

      • 1 vote
      #3.4 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:22 AM EST
      King Dave

      It is true some of the greatest artists, scientist, authors were Catholic and Muslims and commissioned by the religious rulers. As we also know what would happen to them if they said they did not believe, many imprisoned or worst. The Catholics are also known as the great book burning religion, now taken over by Muslim nations. Let us not forget the greatest achievement of all, Egyptian pyramids.

      • 1 vote
      #3.5 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST
      Kevin Mirek

      King Dave,

      You really need to read the poem (sonnet), "Ozymandius," by Percy Bysshe Shelley (1818), the second reference.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

      http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/1904.html

      • 2 votes
      #3.6 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:18 PM EST
      King Dave

      Thank you much Kevin. I enjoyed it. It brings to mind what secrets were lost from the burning of the great Library of Alexandria. That is my true area of interest. Little known ancient history. We are finding humanity was far more advanced, further back in time. Turkey appears to be the cradle of civilization: Check this out Kevin:

      http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html

      I ask my devoted religious friends: Where would you go if there was a time machine? No one says, "The Biblical times of Jesus." I would. I think I would need futuristic weapons to defend myself although. Maybe that is why no one says the time of Jesus?

      • 1 vote
      #3.7 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:32 PM EST
      Kevin Mirek

      King Dave,

      I agree. That is interesting stuff. Human "Stuff" has changed, but human nature has not appreciably advanced over the ages. We tend to be self assured, egotistic, and confident that ours is the greatest age ever. That is simply not true, and anyone who holds those views is condemned to a future of finding himself or herself incorrect.

      It's a BIG universe, and I think there is room for spiritualism, and, yes, the Catholic Church. The demands of Jesus are all good things. Perhaps the men who run the Catholic Church get it wrong, often, but the ideas expresses by Jesus are sound for every age. The only place I would want to go in a time machine would be to see Jesus, hear Him, and follow Him. He did get up from the dead, a rather remarkable and unique feat.

      • 1 vote
      #3.8 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:54 AM EST
      Reply
      Neetu M.

      Do let Mr. Hitchens rest in peace! Isn't that one of the things priests say of all mortals when they die? I think it is unkind to speak ill of the dead.

        Reply#4 - Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:03 AM EST
        Kevin Mirek

        Neetu M,

        Then I suggest his followers stop playing his taped recordings. If I must listen to a dead man, I will respond to that dead man's message.

        • 1 vote
        #4.1 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:26 PM EST
        Neetu M.

        Kevin, with due respect, and I certainly do mean that, shouldn't we let all dead people rest in peace, including those who died over 2000 years ago?

          #4.2 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:38 PM EST
          Kevin Mirek

          Neetu M.

          Yes, that would be appropriate and nice. However, if you want him left in peace, than leave his ideas and messages in peace as well. I will not agree that a dead man talking from the grave, through his recordings, as though he were alive, has exclusive right to the airwaves and internet. If his writings are published, there will be letters to the editor. So, when someone posts one of his videos here, you can expect a response here.

          I have not heard of his resurrection, so, in that case, he loses an argument to Jesus.

          • 1 vote
          #4.3 - Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:01 PM EST
          Neetu M.

          Just have a Happy New Year, Kevin! You are absolutely entitled to your belief - no one has the right to question that.

            #4.4 - Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:44 PM EST
            Kevin Mirek

            Neetu M.

            You have a very nice and prosperous New Year too!

            It will be a good year.

            • 1 vote
            #4.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:56 AM EST
            Neetu M.

            Thank you! I hope it is a good year and all people everywhere in the world learn to be tolerant of each other- that, in my opinion, is the only way we will ever have peace on earth.

              #4.6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:32 AM EST
              Kevin Mirek

              Needu M.

              Tolerance is certainly key to peace. You are right about that.

              • 1 vote
              #4.7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:06 PM EST
              Reply
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