Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit King Dave's column >>

KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
Articles Posted: 77  Links Seeded: 292
Member Since: 2/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Which is More Important: Standing up for the Principals of Equality; or Defending Religion? ~ poll

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:18 PM EST
religion, islam, christianity, atheism
By King Dave

Live Poll

As a matter of principal, which is more important to you?

View Results
  • 168998
    defending gender equality and human rights
    100%
  • 168999
    defending the rights of the religious to enforce their laws such as stoning women for adultary?
    0%

VoteTotal Votes: 14

Live Poll

Which is more important to you?

View Results
  • 168996
    the principals of equality
    100%
  • 168997
    or defending religion
    0%

VoteTotal Votes: 13

Advertise | AdChoices

The secular world practices  gender, sexual, and ethnic equality, and stands with its victims without exception. The religious community fights literally against the notion of equality.

The secular world stands in  solidarity,  rejecting  the ownership of human beings, the slavery of men, women and children.

Luke 12:47-48

 47 "And that slave, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." ~ Jesus Christ

The religious community preaches as a matter of doctrine, dominion over everyone and  everything.

Genesis 1:27.....So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male...

 28 ...replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Which life  is  the religious truly seeking power in?

The secular world supports the use of contraceptives as a means of birth control, and to slow the spread of STD's such as the deadly AIDS virus.

The religious community adamantly forbids the use birth control, even in the case of AIDS, which it views as the "work of the Lord,"  thus  ensuring the poorest people on earth will have the most children and  the shortest lives.

al shebaab

Support for stoning

 In hadith

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50: Conditions, Number 885:  A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's apostle! I ask you by Allah to judge My case according to Allah's Laws." His opponent, who was more learned than he, said, "Yes, judge between us according to Allah's Laws, and allow me to speak." Allah's Apostle said, "Speak." He (i .e. the bedouin or the other man) said, "My son was working as a laborer for this (man) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that it was obligatory that my son should be stoned to death, so in lieu of that I ransomed my son by paying one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious scholars about it, and they informed me that my son must be lashed one hundred lashes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this (man) must be stoned to death." Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to be returned to you, your son is to receive a hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. You, Unais, go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses her guilt, stone her to death." Unais went to that woman next morning and she confessed. Allah's Apostle ordered that she be stoned to death.

A survey carried out by the Indonesia Survey Institute found that 43% of Indonesians support Rajam or stoning for adulterers.

A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center found relatively widespread popular support for stoning as a punishment for adultery in Egypt (82% of respondents in favor of the punishment), Jordan (70% in favor), Indonesia (42% in favor), Pakistan (82% favor) and Nigeria (56% in favor).

As a matter of principal, which is more important, defending gender equality and human rights where needed, or defending the rights of the religious to practice this barbarism?

I find it strange, those who can easily point out  the obvious offensiveness and   absurdity of Fred Phelps' (Westboro  Baptist Church) literal  preaching of the Bible, and by the same token,  view any and all criticism of Islam as equally offensive.

Religious moderates are, in large part, responsible for the religious conflict in our world, because their beliefs provide the context in which scriptural literalism and religious violence can never be adequately opposed. ~ Sam Harris

 There is no middle ground, you must choose  principals or promises.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • King Dave's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Atheism
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (13)
Gaileoin

Standing up for the principals of equality is most important. Faith, I prefer to call it faith or Christianity rather than religion, needs no defense, it can stand on its own. Religion on the other hand may very well need defending if not practiced properly. If practiced properly it may evolve (but not necessarily so) into faith or Christianity which again, needs no defence.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:15 PM EST
Rank on Rank

What if your 'principles' are wholly derived from 'religion'? Then "standing up for your principles" would necessitate your defending your moral beliefs which are based on your religious faith.

It is easy to see how an atheist might be able to separate the two, whereas a person of faith cannot.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST
King Dave

It is easy to see how an atheist might be able to separate the two

That is my point, I assert one can not wholly practice equality, and tolerance, and be religious at the same time.

I am also trying to draw comments from those who defend Islamic barbarism whilst bashing Christianity as a defence for doing so. Criticising one religion as a defence for another. There are so many on Newsvine and around the world who do this.. I want to here why? What principal is that?

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:42 PM EST
Gaileoin

I think one can practice equality and at the same time be a Christian or a person of faith if one interperts the Bible objectively and takes the sermons of some preachers with a grain of salt.

    #2.2 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:47 PM EST
    Grisham

    I see freedom of religion (being able to believe what you want) as part of equality. It's when religion is taken too far and brought into the political arena that it drives me crazy.

    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:26 PM EST
    King Dave

    That could be true gaileoin, if the bible was open to interpratation. There is nothing ambiguous about it, it means what it says. The quran means what it says. You will have to quote me the passage, that says it is ok to be of a different faith. To tolerate them. Where it is possible to believe tolerance of other faiths and still feel you are religious, it's not religious doctrine, and would be hardly recognizable as any religion at all. That I can't and have no desire or interest in arguing against. Thanks for reading my stuff.

    • 3 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:22 AM EST
    Live and let live please

    That could be true gaileoin, if the bible was open to interpratation.

    Umm... it kind of is. The ones who take everything in the Bible literally tend to be the extremists. The more moderate Christians realize that while the Bible is (from their perspective) the word of God, it was translated again and again by human hands, humans who are very prone to imposing their own values on the past. Thus, the smart Christians realize that some of the things in the Bible need to be taken with a grain of salt.

    You will have to quote me the passage, that says it is ok to be of a different faith. To tolerate them.

    "Love thy neighbor" That covers a lot of them actually.
    To be fair, I myself am an atheist, I just try to stick up for religious freedom, because I don't like seeing discrimination or prejudice of any kind. If religious people try to use their religion to justify intolerance, I am much quicker to blame them than I am to blame their religion. Anyway, that's just my two cents.

    • 2 votes
    #2.5 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:10 AM EST
    Baron von Steuben

    One who gains their principles solely through religion is a person who has no principles at all. When principles are handed down from a story book and a preacher, they become worthless burdens of the pathetic.

    • 3 votes
    #2.6 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:39 AM EST
    Live and let live please

    One who gains their principles solely through religion is a person who has no principles at all. When principles are handed down from a story book and a preacher, they become worthless burdens of the pathetic.

    So, any book of stories can't teach worthwhile lessons huh? Kind of narrow minded of you. That's like claiming that nothing of value can be learned from TV or movies, it is a statement so broad that it loses meaning.

    • 2 votes
    #2.7 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:56 AM EST
    Baron von Steuben

    Learning lessons from a book, and basing every one of your principles on that book, are two very different things.

    • 3 votes
    #2.8 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:18 AM EST
    Live and let live please

    See, in your original comment you did not say that if you got all your principles from the book they were worthless.

    One who gains their principles solely through religion is a person who has no principles at all. When principles are handed down from a story book and a preacher, they become worthless burdens of the pathetic.

    It was the second sentence that I objected too.

    • 1 vote
    #2.9 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:55 PM EST
    Baron von Steuben

    Solely from religion. Religion being a story book and the interpretations of that story book. In my mind, what I said is that if you base your principles solely on religion, you have based them solely upon the book that serves as the foundation of that religion. That is where I have a problem. I think this post should clarify my opinion somewhat. I hope so, anyway.

    • 2 votes
    #2.10 - Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:47 PM EST
    Reply
    David-1830107

    It just comes down to no matter what people think different. Its human nature and always will.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#3 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:55 PM EST
    Leave a Comment:
    You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
    You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
    (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
    Newsvine Privacy Statement
    As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
    FUN STUFF:
    • Leaderboard |
    • E-Mail Alerts |
    • Top of the Vine |
    • Newsvine Live |
    • Newsvine Archives |
    • The Greenhouse |
    COMPANY STUFF:
    • Code of Honor |
    • Company Info |
    • Contact Us |
    • Jobs |
    • User Agreement |
    • Privacy Policy |
    • About our ads
    LEGAL STUFF:
    • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
    • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
    • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com