'War over Christmas': Atheists spark anger among Christians after revealing new bah humbug campaign | Mail Online

The holiday, after all, is really just a bastardized solstice celebration.

In other words, exactly what the billboard indicates.

The fact that the holiday was co-opted from Pagan solstice holidays is independent of whether the nativity narratives, or the story of Jesus in general, contained in the Bible are mythic. These billboards tend to address the latter rather than the less controversial and less confrontational first position.

Pagan holidays are no less mythical. Co-opting from some other myth or creating a brand new myth - it's the same message. It is not for real.

It's the general gist of the thing, not the nit-picking.

Pagan holidays are no less mythical.

The holiday isn't mythical, and even the underlying reason to celebrate the holiday, the solstice, isn't mythical. There just is a whole lot of mythology tacked on. The nit-picking is the difference between telling someone you're wrong about subject X versus explaining the truth about subject X. One is confrontational, one is not. Telling the general public they're a bunch of morons doesn't ingratiate you to them. Instead present a compelling alternative and let them change their minds and realize they were mistaken without belittling them in the process.

These are the people that are the face of atheism - and as an atheist who has nothing to do with them, they reflect poorly on me despite the fact we have no connection. This just encourages folks like Bill Donahue to bitch about the militant atheists attacking Christianity. I just don't understand the end game with this type of billboard. I support the ones that promote awareness of atheists and secular humanist groups, but being confrontational for no reason serves no purpose.

Andrew -

Seriously? Please don't explain solstice or equinox to me. I understand the difference between science and mythology.

There just is a whole lot of mythology tacked on.

Exactly, hence mythology. It's all part of the same package. I never said the actual solstice was mythology.

You miss the point entirely. If a belief is a bastardization of another belief, then it is no more likely to be true than the original belief. Whether you like the presentation of the billboard or not is not the point I was trying to make.

is the difference between telling someone you're wrong about subject X versus explaining the truth about subject X.

The statement, "You know it's a myth," IS

• explaining the truth about subject X.

Telling the general public they're a bunch of morons ...

Exaggeration and hyperbolic!

Instead present a compelling alternative

How about - it's mythology? Believe it or not, there are Christians who have never heard their beliefs described as mythology. They only see it as religious beliefs, something that is true.

without belittling them in the process.

Exaggeration and hyperbolic!

These are the people that are the face of atheism - ... attacking Christianity.

You're entitled to your view on this.

I just don't understand the end game with this type of billboard.

To get them to think. To juxtapose other tales with this one, to make the connection, to be frank and not pretend it is something it is not.

but being confrontational for no reason serves no purpose.

Your view (spin) on it. You're entitled to it.

I just don't understand the end game with this type of billboard.

To get them to think.

It doesn't get people to think. It just riles them up and gets them to become incensed at the group posting the billboard. It shifts the conversation to a straw-man attack on the messenger rather than the message.

Your view (spin) on it. You're entitled to it.

Just as your entitled to your opinion that this type of message is the least bit helpful rather than counterproductive.

It doesn't get people to think.

For some yes, others no.

It just riles them up and gets them to become incensed at the group posting the billboard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM

Just as your entitled to your opinion that this type of message is the least bit helpful rather than counterproductive.

Now on that, we agree!

Before you say anything, the link in my previous post was meant to be a humorous presentation of my point.

Great point foodbaby. Religious advertising is so common place it's generally no more worth reporting than the ubiquitous 'dog bites man' story, but an atheist advertisement, like the 'man bites dog' story, makes headlines.

We have so many billboards and signs promoting this or that particular christian sect down here in the Bible Belt, and all they do is mar the beauty of the land. All I could think is that a serious challenge by the Atheists with a solstice message might clear up a bit of traffic around here, all those people driving off the road, clutching their hearts.

You can't convert to atheism because there is nothing to convert to. There is no doctrine, and no set of beliefs. All it is is a lack of belief in the super natural, and because of that it cannot be classified as a religion. Groups like American Atheists are out there to one, try and maintain the barrier between church and state, and two let other atheists know that it is ok for them to be open about their lack of belief. As far as why they do the billboards on Christmas I am not sure, but it is always funny to see the reactions you get out of Christians.

There is no doctrine, and no set of beliefs.

True, but there is a place of worship. You can't get wine there, but you can certainly get a beer!

You can't convert to atheism because there is nothing to convert to. There is no doctrine, and no set of beliefs. All it is is a lack of belief in the super natural, and because of that it cannot be classified as a religion.

Ordinarily I would agree with you but this group is putting up billboards stating that Christmas is just a myth. If you can't convert someone to atheism, then what is their purpose in doing this? As an atheist, I always saw it as a somewhat personal thing, and I have never tried to tell anyone who believes that they are wrong, because what do I care what they believe? I'm all for maintaining the church and state barrier, but deliberately goading people just seems childish.

Lallp -

then what is their purpose in doing this?

Opening one's eyes to the thought that religion is simply mythology passed down as real.

because what do I care what they believe?

Because their beliefs are interfering with secular government and with the teaching of valid science, for starters!

I always saw it as a somewhat personal thing,

That would be great if they kept it personal and didn't have a govt office holder holding a prayer meeting for rain. That's the rub, they don't keep it in their personal life, they push it on a secular nation.

Also, who told some of these candidates to run? It was a personal message from God that told them to run.

Give me a break!

Opening one's eyes to the thought that religion is simply mythology passed down as real.

Sorry, but trying to convince people that their religion is not true is not just pointless, it also sounds a lot like proselytizing to me. Call it what you want, I'm just telling you how it is probably going to be perceived.

Because their beliefs are interfering with secular government and with the teaching of valid science, for starters!

And once again, you seem to confused the loudest portions of religion with the majority. There are plenty of religious people who's beliefs don't interfere with the running of government. Trying to convince all christians to stop believing in order to remove the extremists who are trying to push the barrier between church and state is unnecessary.

Sorry, but trying to convince people that their religion is not true is not just pointless,

Sorry, not pointless. As I stated earlier, many have not even considered their religion as no different than those that came before, which we now call mythology. In fact, there is no difference other than having followers.

There are plenty of religious people who's beliefs don't interfere with the running of government.

And there are plenty that do, and we don't see much help, if any, from those who don't. Nonetheless, the point is still valid whether they are silent or vocal.

Trying to convince all christians to stop believing in order to remove the extremists who are trying to push the barrier between church and state is unnecessary.

You sure like to spin things. No one is trying to convince all christians of anything. It is an effort to educate, to get the message out. The more that can be reached, the better. Those reached hopefully will not propogate the mythology to their children.

You sure like to spin things. No one is trying to convince all christians of anything. It is an effort to educate, to get the message out. The more that can be reached, the better. Those reached hopefully will not propogate the mythology to their children.

Sorry if it seems like I am somehow twisting the facts. I just thought that a billboard stating that christmas and therefore Christianity is a myth would be trying to convince Christians that their beliefs are not true, because if that is not the intention, then I'm not sure what is. As for your second point, I kind of agree with you there, I personally have sometimes felt that teaching religion to children is a bit misguided, because they aren't yet old enough to make decisions for themselves. Plenty of people do begin to believe in religion later in life, but honestly I sometimes think it is unfair to teach it to children who simply assume that whatever their parents say is absolutely true.

Alright, let's just leave it at that.

Alright, let's just leave it at that.

Sounds good to me. :)

Everyone has a right to believe but that doesn't mean anyone should believe. You have a right to believe in Bigfoot if you wish.

Also, there are those believers and believers' groups which cause much harm to this secular nation.