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KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
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The Absurd preachings of Jesus Christ

Sun Nov 6, 2011 8:38 PM EST
religion, christianity, jesus, atheism
By King Dave
By: Steve Wells

"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."~ Jesus Christ John 12:25

Jesus was a hypocrite.

He told his followers not to call anyone a fool.

Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22

Yet he often called his critics and disciples fools.

Ye fools and blind. Matthew 23:17, 19

Ye fools. Luke 11:40

O fools, and slow of heart to believe. Luke 24:25

He invented George W. Bush's false dichotomy.

He that is not with me is against me. Matthew 12:30, Luke 11:230

 

He told his followers to hate their families.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

He insisted that his followers love him more than anyone else (including their families).

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:37

He criticized the Pharisees for not killing parent-cursing children.


 

God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Matthew 15:4

Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Mark 7:10

 

*****No time out, no talking about it, maybe a light spanking? No!!! Jesus demands we slaughter them. Jesus wants parents to put their own children to the sword and kiss his all powerful butt.***

He encouraged his followers to mutilate themselves to avoid hell.

Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out ... And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matthew 5:28-30

If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Matthew 18:8-9

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off ... And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off ... And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-48

He was a false prophet. *** If you think about it, Harold Camping was better at predicting End of Days ***

Verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Matthew 10:23

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32

Behold, I come quickly. Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:11, 22:20

He inspired the Republican Tea Party.


 

Whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Matthew 13:12, Mark 4:25

Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Matthew 25:29

 

He believed in a God (himself?) who had his enemies slaughtered in front of him.


 

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

 

 

He talked complete nonsense about the end of the world.

In those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mark 13:8, 24-25, Matthew 24:3-30, Luke 21:10-11

His friends thought he was insane. His family didn't believe in him. Many that saw him up close and personal thought he was mad and possessed by a devil.


 

For neither did his brethren believe in him. John 7:5 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. Mark 3:21 Many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? John 10:20

 

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/11/reasons-to-be-ashamed-and-not-fan-of.html

Dwindling In Unbelief Complete list here

 

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  • Public Discussion (37)
King Dave

Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored, even by Jesus: "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1) and "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" (Luke 6:37). I have yet to meet a Christian who has not cast judgement upon others.

I am not the author of this article, just some commentary. I hope you enjoy, and please share your thoughts and/or criticisms. They are always welcomed here.

Thanks!

  • 4 votes
#1 - Sun Nov 6, 2011 8:42 PM EST
Rank on Rank

I have yet to meet a Christian who has not cast judgement upon others.

And I have yet to meet, as the the title of this article confirms, an atheist who has not cast judgment upon the Christian faith or Christians.

  • 7 votes
#1.1 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:35 AM EST
ERich-356044

I have read your articles King Dave for a bit now. Sometimes I have commented, sometimes I have not.

You have every right to say what you want to say, and I have every right to disagree with you.

I personally find your articles to be quite linear, as you only seem to attack Christianity. Why not attack other world religions? Why not go after Islam? Judaism? Buddhism?

I am a Christian. I hold no judgement towards anyone. That is what I am commanded to do. Ok,.... well, I admit I hold judgement of Grover Norquist :) but I am only human! I do believe things Jesus said. I take them into context of the culture of the time he was born.

I know that the radical teachings of Jesus were to some quite out there. He spoke to WOMEN!! Women... sheesh.... how dare he! He treated them like they were not property, but people. He hung out with tax collectors and people who were sick.

I think if Jesus were here today, he would be helping the homeless, hanging out in cell block 6 in the Los Angeles twin towers (the drug block), he would be caring for those addicted to meth, caring for orphans and teen moms. He wouldn't be in a mega church preaching against gay marriage. He wouldn't be driving his suburban home to his little cookie cutter house.

I do have every right to say and believe what I want, just as you have.

E

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 8:36 AM EST
Ripley8

Rank on Rank

I have yet to meet a Christian who has not cast judgement upon others.

And I have yet to meet, as the the title of this article confirms, an atheist who has not cast judgment upon the Christian faith or Christians.

but atheists don't have a code that says they are to be nonjudgmental ...as Christianity does.

so your comment fails.

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 9:12 AM EST
Rank on Rank

Ripley, your arguments defending atheism grow more feeble with each new post.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 9:42 AM EST
Ripley8

lmao Rank ... you are the king of feeble arguments !!

answer this ..

true or false ..

it states in the bible , the NT , to not pass judgement.

now ..

show me where it says that in some atheist code.

like I said ... you failed.

  • 4 votes
#1.5 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:17 AM EST
TruettCollins

oops DOUBLE POST

    #1.6 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:33 AM EST
    TruettCollins

    There you go again, taking things OUT OF CONTEXT:

    The bible encourages righteous judgment in Leviticus 19:15 " Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.",

    Also notice Isaiah 61:8 "For I the Lord love judgment:

    Ephesians 5:10-11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them, reprove means to expose and it requires judging to determine what evil and wrong doing is , the verse that you provided which can be found in

    Matthew 7:1 is simply emphasizing correct your own faults before you judge, it is not a blanket statement against judging only emphasizing correct your own faults before you apply righteous judgment.

    Amos 5:14-16 "Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph",

    Micah 3:8-9 "But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity"

    Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."

    John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.", 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

    many of these scriptures emphasize the importance of judging and the terrible consequences when it is not done, and how wickedness flourishes when it is not done, so to judge is a requirement and does not dictate that the person who does it in righteousness is in fact guilty of the same thing that he is exposing, only doing what they are required to do you don't know understand or properly accurately interpret scripture. and if you were really a true christian you would understand these most basic biblical truths, but you are not a christian and are more than likely a homosexual masquerading as a christian to secretly garner support for your filthy cause.

    • 2 votes
    #1.7 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:33 AM EST
    Rank on Rank

    Ripley, thank you for confirming that what I posted @1.4 was absolutely correct.

    Your second post was even more lame than your first.

    • 2 votes
    #1.8 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 12:27 PM EST
    Dr Fell

    but the levites were granted religious authority for as long as the temple of solomon still stands. In jesus time it didn't, nor does it now

      #1.9 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 1:56 PM EST
      Ripley8

      TruettCollins

      There you go again, taking things OUT OF CONTEXT:

      The bible encourages righteous judgment in Leviticus 19:15 " Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.",

      and you are taking things out of context !!!!!!

      why should anyone be judged when all actions good bad evil indifferent comes from God ?

      it should then be God you are judging !!

      for example ...

      I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7

      Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)

      Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

      "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

      even the bible denies one has free will ..

      "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"[Isaiah 29:16, 45:9] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

      Romans 9:20-21 [NIV]

      so , going by the bible ??? free will doesn't exist hence mans actions are Gods to determine solely ... hense it's God you need to judge ~!

      • 3 votes
      #1.10 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 3:43 PM EST
      TruettCollins

      But then he allows you to choose either good or evil....thus choosing your own results/destiny.

        #1.11 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:49 PM EST
        Rank on Rank

        why should anyone be judged when all actions good bad evil indifferent comes from God ?

        Ripley,

        Human actions which are evil come from GOD? You can't really believe that. That would be a total denial of personal responsibility. "Every good thing and every perfect thing comes for the Father of Lights (GOD). James 1:17"

        I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7

        Yes, meaning that GOD decides the consequences of negative actions. It doesn't mean He is the origin of evil, particular when human beings are the perpetrators.

        Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)

        It's no effort proving you wrong if you take scriptures out of context. The Scripture here is talking about judgment of GOD. Again He is the One Who decides what form it will take.

        Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

        Yes, good to those who do good, evil to those who do evil. As is stated here from Romans 2:

        'God who "will pay back to everyone according to their works:" to those who by perseverance in good works seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life;

        But to those who are self-seeking, and don't obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath and indignation, oppression and anguish, on every soul of man who works evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

        But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who works good,...'

        even the bible denies one has free will ..

        This is a commonly used fallacy employed by atheists. The verse you quote in Psalms says only that the Omniscient GOD knows the course of our lives before we were born and planned our destinies based upon the choices we would make. It doesn't say we have no free will. Just because GOD knows what we'll do in the future, takes nothing away from our free will at every single present moment.

        "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"[Isaiah 29:16, 45:9] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

        And you see that in life. Some people are born to greatness, and others to a more humble existence. Still, those who are great usually demonstrated perseverance, sacrifice, and dedication. And, usually they did so of their own free will.

        so , going by the bible ??? free will doesn't exist hence mans actions are Gods to determine solely ... hense it's God you need to judge ~!

        Your understanding of the Bible is as a corrupt file, a perverted attempt to judge an Infinitely Just GOD. The Bible doesn't teach what you are trying to make it say. Free will definitely exists. If it didn't, GOD would have just programmed everyone on earth like robots to believe and obey Him with no option at all. He didn't want robots. He wanted people made after His Own Image and Likeness. So He gave us free will because He has free will.

        Repent before its too late.

          #1.12 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 5:06 PM EST
          King Dave

          And I have yet to meet, as the the title of this article confirms, an atheist who has not cast judgment upon the Christian faith or Christians.

          Rank I am disappointed with you, I was hoping you would bring some substance, so meat to the discussion, but yet again you brought the vegetable medley. Do you care to defend these Jesus quotes? And do not dare say, "Jesus was not a true Christian."

          ERich: I personally find your articles to be quite linear, as you only seem to attack Christianity. Why not attack other world religions? Why not go after Islam? Judaism?

          You miss understand atheism. It is unbelief in the supernatural. It is criticism of those who kill in a gods name. Helping the helpless. Defending the defenseless. It not just about questioning the beliefs in Jesus. Here are some of what you asked for. Please check the out and share your thoughts

          Islam: "These People should have more Important Things to do then Worship the Beard Hair of a Schizophrenic." ~ Sam Harris (Video)
          Sam Harris ~ Religion: An Eruption of Egregious Medieval Stupidity / Opening remarks from: 'Religion, Politics and the End of the World' (Video)
          But Mormonism is a Cult, and like Rick Perry, this cult's founder Joseph Smith was a Fraud ~ Christopher Hitchens

          Thank God I was not born a Woman or a Gentile

          It is time we acknowledged that no real foundation exists within the canons of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any of our other faiths for religious tolerance and religious diversity. ~ Sam Harris

          How strong is ones belief if it can not handle any criticism ~ KD

          • 1 vote
          #1.13 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 6:57 PM EST
          Rank on Rank

          Do you care to defend these Jesus quotes? And do not dare say, "Jesus was not a true Christian."

          Before I can really respond, King Dave, I need to know one thing: What the devil are you talking about?

          BTW Jesus Christ was and is a Jew.

          • 2 votes
          #1.14 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:03 PM EST
          Ripley8

          TruettCollins

          But then he allows you to choose either good or evil....thus choosing your own results/destiny.

          mmmmmmmmm no ... God doesn't allow you to choose according to the bible .

          please read #1.10 again.

          until the mid 1800's predetermination was the belief ( because that's what the bible states ! ) it changes as rapture was made up. that too isn't in the bible.

          Rank on Rank

          Human actions which are evil come from GOD? You can't really believe that.

          I don't believe anything from the bible or any holy text. I'm just giving you what the bible states...MANY times ... That God is the creator of evil.

          again ... these are only a few examples of about 30+ though out the bible ..

          Job states, "The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away" (Job 1:21). Notice he didn't say 'The Lord gave and Satan took away'. And what does he tell his poor wife: "Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not (also) receive evil?" (Job 2:10). At the end of the Book of Job, even his friends acknowledge that God does evil: "all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him" (Job 42:11 cp. 19:21; 8:4).

          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7

          Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)

          Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

          that everything goes according to Gods will ....

          The Scriptures make it perfectly clear that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. He knows everything you are going to do, when you are going to do it, and why.

          PASSAGES: PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13

          Biblical Christianity Denies Free Will

          ...If our actions and nature are determined by God, how can god blame us for those actions? The Biblical text runs thusly:

          "It does not therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed on all the earth." [Exodus 9:16] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

          19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?""

          Romans 9:16-19 [NIV]

          And that is the clincher; the ultimate question. Paul has asked "Is God unjust?" for its denial of free will, for its disregard for what our choices and intentions are. Paul now has a mortal present that same question. His answer is a shocker:

          "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"[Isaiah 29:16, 45:9] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

          Romans 9:20-21 [NIV]

          The answer is: Tough! God is unjust, simply because it can be! There is no justification, God makes some people "for noble use", chosen and predestined to do good works 'which God prepared in advance' 'according to his purpose'.

          http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_freewill.html

          in this same sense 'evil' and suffering are caused by god according to his purpose. ( how many people always like to say 'everything happens for a reason' ?

          --also . not to get into it now but Satan never stopped serving god and is still an angel ( just has a really crappy job ( job for example .. needed gods approval before acting.) Lucifer is not the devil or satan ... but the king of tyre ( as well as a reference to being jesus in the book of Revelation ( which is a whole other myth subject ).)

          free will ? an illusion.

          given the choice between 2 or more you can only choose 1 .......... the one you were meant too choose. can't undo it . in another second you may choose another but that is still a different moment in time ...... all views of choice maybe nothing more than illusion in order to maintain a human experience and yet spiritually each point is known .

          there are some that believe that even before you were born your life path was laid out. your birth , to whom , the circumstances .... each and everything of your life really known and plotted. that you/God / ect ....... picked it all out and in a human existence 'forget '.

          like a puzzle or a painting where each move is plotted out not just for your experience but for how your experience fits into others . we don't live in a vacuum.

          a huge play where we are the actors so absorbed into the script that we forget we are actors.

          but .. even going beyond a spiritual explanation ?

          20th century quantum mechanics posits an underlying stochastic and indeterministic element. This is equally at odds with the common notion of free will: just because human action is unpredictable does not imply its random.

          an interesting site ...

          The Science of Consciousness Studies

          http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/

          Is Free Will an Illusion?
          http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/04/is-free-will-an/
          Unconscious determinants of free decisions in the human brain

          http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v11/n5/abs/nn.2112.html

            #1.15 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:08 PM EST
            Ripley8

            Repent before it's too late Rank ??

            Jesus was not a sin sacrifice ! that was made up by the catholic church !!

            No where in the belief that Jesus held being a Jew can someone die for anothers sin. That , like hell and satan , is a myth christians made up to push their agenda.

            from a friend of mine who has since passed , a biblical scholar ..

            Biblical scholars/theologians know that Jesus never intended to be a sin-sacrifice, resurrect, nor start a new religion. There are clues --obvious ones-- in the Gospels and the Sayings Gospel Q for this. Jesus' self-understanding was that he (a descendant of David?) and John the Baptizer (descendant of the priestly line?) were to be apart (Two Messiahs as we see them in 1QSa) of the end of the age and God's coming kingdom. That ended on the cross with Jesus' famous cry that God had forsaken him. He obviously expected a divine intervention at the last moment ... one that would save his life and usher in the kingdom. Of course, that did not happen.

            so no one has any need to repent !! that's just made up bull@!$%# !

              #1.16 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:14 PM EST
              Rank on Rank

              Ripley,

              You are so wrong about so many things where the Bible is concerned I almost don't know where to begin.

              I know that you're a bible illiterate, meaning that you probably never read the Bible itself for yourself. At least not for understanding. You depend on atheists to interpret it for you.

              I don't think I will be responding to anything you post anymore. Because you certainly don't know what you are talking about. Besides, all you ever do is lie. And I have no interest in talking to a liar.

              • 3 votes
              #1.17 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 8:18 PM EST
              Ripley8

              no Rank ... I'm not wrong at all.

              the only bible illiterate here is you ( and a few others )

              I've given you facts. that scares you. understandable however.

                #1.18 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 6:12 AM EST
                Reply
                Baron von Steuben

                Another excellent post King Dave.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#2 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 10:32 AM EST
                TruettCollins

                For just a few of your claims:

                First, the word in Matthew 5:22 is Raka, not fool. Raka is a Hebrew word meaning empty.

                In Matthew 23:17 and 19 the word is mOroi, meaning insipid-ones or stupid-ones.

                In Luke 11:40 it is aphrones meaning imprudent-ones or un-disposed.

                Luke 11:40 simply says you either support Christ or you don’t. Actually pretty simple.

                Luke 14:26 and Matthew 10:37 simply tell you that he is to be first in your life with your family second. When taken in context you see that if you place him first you will find a greater love for your family.

                When you take Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10 in context you find that he is criticizing those who hold to the old laws hunting and picking the ones they like and ignoring the ones they don’t. Kind of like your hunting and picking and using scriptures out of context.

                As for claims on mutilation, you miss the point entirely….he is telling people that they need to follow him and God’s will and that hell is worse that it would be to do these things.

                Matthew 10:23….have all the cities in Israel become Christian?
                Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27 – and there were those with him there who were also there when he ascended into his kingdom.

                Mark 13:30, Luke 23:32 – both taken in context….all the things that he predicted have not come to pass yet, but when the last of them have that generation will see him return.

                Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:11, 22:20 and how do you measure quickly when compared to eternity?

                  Reply#3 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 10:47 AM EST
                  Ripley8

                  Revelation , since I don't have the time to address all your indoctrinated crap ...

                  an education for you Truett..

                  James Kelhoffer, an assistant professor of theological studies at Saint Louis University:

                  "Many people who have interpreted the rich symbolism and mythology of [Revelation] have read into it to reflect on a world cataclysm within their lifetime. It greatly misunderstands ancient Jewish and Christian prophets who always talk about apocalypses within their own time, not several centuries hence.

                  Is John's Apocalypse unique?

                  The Revelation of John, the Apocalypse, also must be looked at from the perspective that it's not the only such piece of apocalyptic literature that we have. In fact there are lots of apocalypses. Some thirty or forty of them from the ancient world that we know by name and we can actually read still to this day. ... So when the author of the Book of Revelation sat down to write, there was a very strong paradigm of what revelation literature should look like and sound like. The stock of characters, the list of images, the symbols one uses are pretty commonplace, if you're in that environment.

                  How exactly did Babylon become equated with Rome?

                  In the prophetic books and the historical books of the Old Testament, Babylon is described primarily as the one who destroyed Jerusalem. And for John, writing after 70, Babylon then becomes a code name for Rome, because it was the second city to destroy the Temple. ... "Babylon" is the most common phrase that John uses to refer to Rome, and at first he introduces that term very briefly and indirectly. And the place where it's elaborated is Chapter 17, the vision of the Great Harlot. Babylon is a city with overtones of imperial might and destructiveness, conqueror of other cities. Then you have the harlot with her golden cup, her purple, or scarlet clothing, her jewels sitting on seven hills. He hints that it's Rome in several ways. One, that she sits on seven hills, and Rome was famous as the city of seven hills, and several times in chapters 13 and 17 it's talked about as ruling all the peoples of the earth. And there was only one possibility in John's time, that has to be Rome. ...

                  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...revelation.html

                  Revelations was of dubious importance to early Church fathers. In fact, it barely made it into the NT canon.

                  A number of Church Fathers weighed in on the authorship of Revelation. Justin Martyr avows his belief in its apostolic origin. Irenaeus (178) assumes it as a conceded point. At the end of the 2nd century, we find it accepted at Antioch, by Theophilus, and in Africa by Tertullian. At the beginning of the 3rd century, it is adopted by Clement of Alexandria and by Origen, later by Methodius, Cyprian, and Lactantius. Dionysius of Alexandria (247) rejected it, upon doctrinal rather than critical grounds. Eusebius (315) suspended his judgment, hesitating between the external and internal evidence. Some canons, especially in the Eastern Church, rejected the book, while most others included it.

                  Wiki ...

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#4 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:21 AM EST
                  TruettCollins

                  Typical....jump right to revelations which we are told we are not meant to understand and try to disregard all the other false things by giving men's interpretation of something the scriptures itself say we will not understand. The last resort of one who has no foundation to stand on.

                    #4.1 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:47 AM EST
                    Ripley8

                    no Truett ..

                    what's typical is you fail to understand the bible , the culture and religious beliefs of the time.

                    I 'jumped ' to the myth of revelations because I don't feel like being here all day giving you facts about your myths that your in denial out of fear about anyway.

                    but maybe , just maybe ... those facts will help someone else out who can think clearly , logically and truthfully.

                    • 3 votes
                    #4.2 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 3:38 PM EST
                    TruettCollins

                    So you refuse to admit that the claims about "fool" are FALSE.

                      #4.3 - Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:51 PM EST
                      Ripley8

                      TruettCollins

                      could you please list where you got your translations from ??

                      using Hebrew translators ??? I've found for example ...Raka ( רקעות )isn't found as empty but the word 'stamped' .

                      If my friend were still alive , a translator/biblical scholar who got to work under ( far under ) Prof. Ehrman and others who helped in the authentication of the Gospel of Judas were alive I'd just ask him .

                        #4.4 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 6:46 AM EST
                        TruettCollins

                        From the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer....

                          #4.5 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:58 PM EST
                          Future History

                          Typical....jump right to revelations which we are told we are not meant to understand and try to disregard all the other false things by giving men's interpretation of something the scriptures itself say we will not understand.

                          How pathetic. Gee, thanks God - for giving us reading materials that we are incapable of comprehending. Next time just keep it to yourself, because it obviously serves no purpose for us stupid humans, other than to further some completely irrational arguments of no relevency.

                            #4.6 - Wed Nov 9, 2011 8:20 AM EST
                            Reply
                            Future History

                            Soooo ... Jesus said that if you even look lustfully at a woman then you are guilty of adultry, and you should pluck out your eye to ensure that you don't go to hell. Same goes for your hands and feet - chop them off to get out of going to hell. That is so @!$%#ing crazy that nobody would ever do that now days, and considering how much adultery is happening in the world, hell must be packed! Most men in America would be walking around on stumps, blindly bumping into walls as they attempt to apply a tourniquet without any fingers to stop the bleeding from their freshly chopped off penis. I just don't understand how any Christian can read those passages and not realize how stupid they are for endorsing such a religion. But that's just me I guess.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#5 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 10:53 AM EST
                            frenchjr56

                            The myriads of comments from those whose beliefs and disbeliefs of the scriptures is vast and truly distinct. the words of Christ Jesus are many times taken out of context by those who want to show how the Bible is not harmonious in any of its teachings. Analogy is that of walking into a conversation and only hearing the parts that you see as false or not adhering to scripture. Some one used Job 42:11 in speaking about God doing evil to someone, in this case Job. The scripture reads in truth; "to comfort him over all the calamity that Jehovah HAD LET come upon him;"...[42:11] This was not doing 'evil' to him but as the events unfolded 'evil' was done to him with Jehovah God permission. Job unaware still held to his faith in God and was greatly rewarded. The greater reward is that those children he lost will be resurrected along with him. That is why Jesus died. Another misrepresented verse was Lam. 3:38,it too was taken out of context. It reads: From the mouth of the Most High bad things and what is good do not go forth." reading verse 37 and 39 the point Jeremiah was making comes to light.

                            Reading the comments made by all, the Bible should be read more and finding out what it truly holds out for man. One point came to mind from the Bible, when Jesus told his crowd of disciples to 'eat his flesh and drink his blood' many were shocked upon hearing him speak this way. The account at John 6:41-71 is true today with many who hear the truth but are shocked to believe it. Many were following Jesus believing what he taught, some for other reasons. Those who truly wanted to learn the truth and become a true follower listen with humble hearts and questions about what they were learning. Jesus weeded out those who did not want the truth. Peter answered truthfully that Jesus had the sayings of everlasting life and could not be found anywhere else.

                            Jesus Christ crying out on the stake that his Father had abandoned him was in fulfillment of Psalms 22:1,2. He fulfilled many scriptures and a studious reading will show one this fact. They are not absurd but faith strengthening. He gave his perfect life in a 'cover' price for what Adam lost for us in the beginning. All the animal sacrifices could never pay the amount of a perfect human life. Only another perfect life could do so. The Bible calls it a 'propitiatory' sacrifice[1 John 2:2;4:10], the thought the church made this up is a lie! The apostles knew what and why Christ Jesus die and taught new converts this while they were alive. Only after the death of the final apostle,John, did the teachings of Jesus begin to take a pagan twist. Paul wrote and warned Christians before at 2 Thess. 2:1-12. This is what Christians today should be using to do what Jesus showed us to do,"preach the good news of God's kingdom". Not being involved in politics or other worldly matters, the kingdom is mankind's only hope. The one prayed for and billions do not even know it. No the teachings of Jesus are not absurd but hold value then and even today in these final parts of the end times.

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#6 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:12 PM EST
                            King Dave

                            Future, there was just a man who ripped his eyes out in front of not surprised parishioners at a Catholic Church. The story was seeded on Newsvine, not by me. The man's eyesight could not be saved, even by a Christ. He did this because of the bible verse. I'm at work and using my phone, so I can't link story, but it is absolutely true.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#7 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:38 PM EST
                            TruettCollins

                            So this man has a problem....and it is not the religion but his problem....

                            Then you admit to being a theif......

                              #7.1 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 3:00 PM EST
                              Future History

                              That is so @!$%#ing crazy that nobody would ever do that now days ...

                              Correction ... that is so @!$%#ing crazy that nobody who isn't insane would ever do that now days ...

                              Truett - there you go again apologizing for religion. The words are right there in black and white, so tell us what allegorical purpose would these words serve? An infallible author can't come up with a more socially responsible way of saying that adultry is bad?

                              • 2 votes
                              #7.2 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 3:37 PM EST
                              Reply
                              Campground

                              Interesting discussion. The last words of Jesus were cried out in a loud voice, "Father, into Thy hands I commend my Spirit." He then gave up the Ghost.

                              Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, "Certainly this was a righteous man."

                                Reply#8 - Tue Nov 8, 2011 8:44 PM EST
                                frenchjr56

                                Yes, interesting indeed. The Bible is a very fact filled book, some times it is slighted. The thought you made, campground was from the account of Luke's research of Jesus' life and ministry. The passage 23:46 says he spoke those words and then expired. Matthew wrote at 27:46-54 at verse 50 " again[Jesus]he cried out with a loud voice, and yielded up his spirit." Mark wrote also at 15:34, 37-39about this event. At verse 37 it read:"But Jesus let out a loud cry and expired." The one apostle who would have been closet to the scene and heard Jesus' last words wrote this as the last words spoken:"It has been accomplished!" This would have been the last words spoken since Jesus would have known that ALL things had been fulfilled by him. He made sure that his mother was going to be cared for, the one knowing this wrote of this. This not being in the other Gospel accounts.Also the promise to the other impaled person is not carried by the other Gospel writers. Luke wrote what he found by eyewitness reports and of record while Mark and John where there. Matthew was a disciple and drew from memory what he wrote. But the thought was all wrote in harmony with the truth of what Jesus taught while here on earth. He accomplished all his Father wanted him to do.

                                  Reply#9 - Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:37 PM EST
                                  lastofall

                                  The articles author err´s much, not knowing how to rightly divide the Word of Truth, but it is of no surprise, seeing that one must have received the gift of the Holy Ghost to be able to do such. As for what our Lord is referring to is our denying our own will, including the will of other´s, knowing that our own will is our own righteousness; and our own righteousness is as filthy rages, which we must needs come to realize.

                                    Reply#10 - Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:15 AM EST
                                    King Dave

                                    If your soul searching has lead you to conclude your thought and desires are of a "filth rag", perhaps then the only option is invisible guidance?

                                      #10.1 - Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:32 AM EST
                                      Reply
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