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KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
Articles Posted: 77  Links Seeded: 292
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Is every single Christian a hypocrite? Selective morality & Bible Teachings Ignored

Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:44 PM EDT
religion, christianity, atheism
By King Dave
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Even Christians will like this one: I think?

 

Christians, they love to talk about how loving, dutiful and compassionate they are, yet I have yet to meet ONE who does not practice hypocrisy to the highest degree.  Their willful ignorance of the Bible combined with their two faced idealism to preach it, has made us sick, hasn’t it?  For nearly two thousand years Biblicists have been lecturing people on the importance of adhering to the Bible’s teachings on ethics, manners, and morality.  They quote Jesus and Paul profusely, with a liberal sprinkling of Old Testament moralism.  The problem with their approach lies not only in an oft- noted failure to practice what they preach, but an equally pronounced tendency to ignore what the Bible itself, preaches.  Christians practice what can only be described as “selective morality”.  What they like, they cling to and shove down other’s throats; what they don’t like, they ignore vehemently.  That which is palatable and acceptable is supposedly applicable to all; while that which is obnoxious, inconvenient, or self-denying is only applicable to those addressed 2,000 years ago.  Their hypocrisy is so rampant that even the validity of calling oneself “Christian” is in question. I see so many people enjoy quoting the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, and some of Paul’s sermons, but don’t even PRETEND to heed other, equally valid, maxims.  I’ve mentioned pro-life and conservatism in other sermons. This one is going to sum up the rest of my beefs.

         The Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings.  Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward.  But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..."  (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).  Biblicists violate this on a regular basis and have no intention of correcting their behavior.  They demand that evolution be taken out of the curriculum. They demand parochial school receive voucher programs so that they may collect public funding.  Christians continuously pray in public, IE: churches, street corners, schools, courts, etc. yet all the while they never stop to think this is in direct violation to the god they pray to.  

"THE REAL" 10 Commandments"

   On to another beef:    Christians always use the excuse that the above mentioned verse is some how “metaphorical” yet they take Paul’s maxim that men should pray with their heads uncovered very seriously.  I assume this is generally followed because removing one’s hat isn’t particularly inconvenient.  "Any man who prays or prophecies with his head covered dishonors his head…" (1 Corinthians 11:4 RSV).  On the other hand, Paul’s tenet that women must keep their heads covered with a veil during prayer is quite inconvenient and, for this reason, has either been rationalized away or ignored, although it is no less binding than any other moral law in the New Testament: “…but any woman who prays or prophecies with her head unveiled dishonors her head…  For if a woman will not veil herself, then we should cut off her hair: but if it be disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil…  Judge for yourself; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with head uncovered?”  (1 Corinthians 11:5-13 RSV)  The selectivity in which these verses are followed SCREAMS hypocrisy.

 

More Commonly Ignored Teachings:

1) "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (l Corinthians 11:14).  How many freaked out long-haired, bible thumping Jesus freaks do you know?  Perhaps this is just my experience, but I can name 12 such individuals off the top of my head.  Surely, you can recall at least ONE LONG-HAIRED CHRISTIAN.  The stereotypical version of CHRIST HIMSELF!  Think of the numerous statues and pictures Christians adore depicting the lord appearing as that which he detests.  One can not stop and wonder at the absurdity of this.

2) Another tenet clearly prohibits women from being ministers or otherwise speaking in church (“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak”-- 1 Corinthians 14:34). It’s difficult to see how Paul could support the current movement to ordain women.  Why, Jesus would @!$%# himself knowing that even I, an ATHEIST WOMAN, has managed to get herself legally ordained.

3) A third tenet prohibits men and women from wearing each other’s clothing (“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God”--Deuteronomy 22:5).  Funny thing, two female Jehovah Witnesses came over this morning, they coffee clutched with my neighbor Jenny, a fellow Christian and ALL THREE of these women were wearing pant suits!

4) Ever watch these Christians on television and notice how their bowed heads uniformly shake amen while some evangelist goes on and on in prayer for a farking hour?  Well, repetitious and monotonous praying is in violation of Matthew 6:7.  “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

5) Christians are not supposed to take their disputes before non-Christian courts or judges.  (“If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?”  -- 1 Corinthians 6:1 NIV) How interesting!  Considering that state is separate from church all courts are supposedly “ungodly”.  Does this stop Christians from tying up the supreme court with law suits concerning school prayer, abortion, or numerous other absurdities?  Hell no it doesn’t, and my taxes are paying the farking bill for their hypocrisy!

6) Christian women are supposed to dress discreetly (“...that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire”--l Timothy 2:9 RSV; and “Let not yours be the outward adorning of braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing”-- 1 Peter 3 :3). Violations of these rules are too numerous to mention.  Just visualize Tammy Faye Baker’s mascara laden eyes and gold encrusted wrists.

7) Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).  I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged my atheism.  The whole world is chalk full of judges, juries, voters, employers, teachers, etc. which are all constantly judging others.

8) Believers are supposed to hate their parents when they follow Jesus (“If any man come to me, and not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sister, yet, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26).  Well, considering that Christians do not abandon their families but usually attempt to brainwash them they are all guilty of not following this verse. “It’s symbolic”, yeah, I know your lame ass defense to this one already.

9) They are not to oppose evil (“But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”-- Matthew 5:39).  If this were followed one might just as well abolish law enforcement.

10) Biblicists are not allowed to call anyone “father” (“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven” (Matthew 23:9).  Not only is this rule ignored on a DAILY BASIS, but Catholicism uses “father” as a specific title.

11) Christians are not supposed to plan or prepare.  God will provide (“Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or that ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on...  Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, not gather into barns; yet your heavenly father feedth them.  Are ye not much better than they?”  --Matthew 6:25-34 & Luke 12:22-31 inclusive).  I see Christian conservatives plot on a daily basis how to screw their employees so they can reap more profits.

12) Lastly, Jesus, who clearly is of greater importance than Paul, said the Old Law was to remain in force until heaven and earth passed away and all is accomplished (“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”-Matthew 5:18-19 RSV).  Heaven and earth still exist and many prophecies are not yet fulfilled.  How many times have you heard some lame ass Christian say “the Old testament doesn’t matter, Jesus was the lamb and abolished it”?  Don’t let them get away with this @!$%# for even the bible says that they should still be following the Old Law.

    This verse leads me into an observation of how clear their selective morality can be exposed.  Take for instance how Biblicists approach the Old Testament.  They leap in and out of the Old Law like a porpoise in a ship’s wake.  If they like it, they quote it; if they don’t, they won’t.  Among the scores of verses they enjoy and employ are those which teach the following:

13) Contact with mediums or wizards is forbidden (“Do not turn to mediums or wizards; do not seek them out to be defiled by them.  I am the Lord your God”-- Leviticus 19:3 1 RSV, see also: Leviticus 20:6 & Deuteronomy 18: 10-12).  Here’s an interesting little stat; Christians more then any other faith consult mystics and self-proclaimed oracles.

14) People should give one-tenth of their income to the Lord, which Biblicists equate with church (“And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s...And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord”--Leviticus 27:30-32)

15) Tattoos are anathema: (“You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you.  I am the Lord”--Leviticus 19:28) Despite this teaching I manage to see  Catholics daily with tattoos of the Virgin Mary, Jesus or a set of praying hands on their forearms and shoulder blades.

16) Money cannot be lent at interest to your brother, only to foreigners (Deuteronomy 23: 19-20) Ahhh, I’m recalling all the Christian banking corporations....

17) Eating pork is forbidden (Deuteronomy 14:8).  Hmm, I’ve never met a Christian who DIDN’T enjoy bacon and eggs.

18) A man must marry and have relations with his dead brother’s wife (Deuteronomy 25:5-6).  This goes without explaining of course.

19) A seducer must marry an unengaged virgin whom he seduces (Exodus 22:16-17)

20) A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).  What justice the “moral majority” advocates!

21) There are several petty and silly little verses in the O.T., but none the less, they are to be followed.  I guess it’s okay to disobey the lord for fashion’s sake.  Beards can’t be rounded (Leviticus 19:27); A garment composed of wool and linen can’t be worn (Deuteronomy 22:11); Note: this explains why you will commonly see orthodox Jews with the long beards and black clothing.  I say Christians should do this too so we can identify their stupidity upon first impression.

22) Bastards can’t enter the Lord’s congregation.  (Deuteronomy 23:2)  Hey, I know this is harsh, but God commands it, hence it must be “just”.

    All of these rules are part of the Old Covenant and of equal import.  Why quote the Ten Commandments and ignore other tenets?  A believer’s obligation to one is no less than his obligation to all.  In fact, if under the New Covenant Christians have stepped into the shoes of the Israelites and become, in effect, the new Chosen People, then they should inherit all the privileges and duties of that office.  They seem to want the former but not the latter.  Biblicists teach, preach, and attempt to reach others with moralism, but are not averse to selectively using that which suits their interests.

    I’d like to close this essay with how to catch a Christian in the act.  When you see them expounding a verse and ignoring another, call them on it.  I know what you’ll hear.  They’ll say, “that’s from the Old Law and we aren’t under the Old Law anymore”.  Trip them with this: “But aren’t the Ten Commandments part of the Old Law?”  “Yes, but we are obligated to follow them because they are reported in the NT” (Matthew 19:16-18, Mark 10:17-19 & Luke 18:18-22).  Immediately point out to them that Jesus omitted half of the Ten Commandments and invented a new one, “though shall not defraud” !  Before they can get a word in edge wise finish them off with: “According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19).  If sin is transgression of the law, as 1 John 3:4 says, then you should be following all of the Old Law.  This, from experience, is the best way to shoot down these idiots and bar them from getting away with their hypocrisy.

Is every single Christian a hypocrite? No, but every single word in this article was  ripped from EvilBible. com http://www.evilbible.com/christians_are_hypocrites.htm

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  • Public Discussion (88)
King Dave

Here is perhaps the mother of verses ignored: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37). I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged my atheism. The whole world is chalk full of judges, juries, voters, employers, teachers, etc. which are all constantly judging others.

I love judging people, it's fun!

But I'm not religious, and unlike religion, I always welcome every ones thoughts and most especially criticisms.

Thank you.

  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:49 PM EDT
Drakkonis

Dave,

Perhaps you should spend less time judging christianity and spend more time learning about what christianity actually is. Might help you some.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:34 AM EDT
King Dave

Thank you for making the articles point.

  • 9 votes
#1.2 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT
Drakkonis

You're welcome. I do try to be helpful. Perhaps you can be helpful, too, by telling me which of your points I've prooven? We could discuss that.

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
King Dave

which of your points I've prooven?

I don't like repeating myself, But it seems I must..

"Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1)

KD: ~ I love judging people, it's fun! But I'm not religious

you should spend less time judging Christianity

KD: ~ and unlike religion, I always welcome every ones thoughts ...and most especially "criticisms."

Why do you want to silence releigious criticism? The religious have a long infamous history with that. Can not ones faith take criticism without crumbling?

  • By failing to live by the letter of the texts, while tolerating the irrationality of those who do, religious moderates betray faith and reason equally. ~ Sam Harris

    • 6 votes
    #1.4 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:36 PM EDT
    bluearcher

    The great thing about religious morality?

    It's flexible, malleable and allows for justification of anything and everything.

    • 9 votes
    #1.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:18 PM EDT
    Never Stop Asking Questions

    Christianity is inherently incompatible, contradictory to, and exists in contradistinction to the Party of No/Teathuglicons.

    Other than that, Christianity emulates the Reichwing /s

    • 4 votes
    #1.6 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:55 AM EDT
    Jack TX

    King Dave, your article indicates a deep misunderstanding of the nature of much of the scriptures.

    To your broader assertion that all Christians are hypocrites....meh....maybe. Probably.

    After all..."all have sinned an fallen short of the Glory of God."

      #1.7 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 12:39 PM EDT
      JM California

      That tsunami in Japan was Glorious, indeed. /s

      • 3 votes
      #1.8 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 12:50 PM EDT
      lastone

      Several of your points are taken out of context in regards to the bible. A few examples. One: in Corinth in Paul's day, women that wore their hair uncovered were mistresses or prostitutes. His directive was to have them be distinguishable between them. It is a cultural difference between that area and others. These after all were letters to specific people in a specific area.

      Two: In the striking of the right cheek. If a person were to be standing in front of someone to hit that person on the right cheek, saying they are right handed (very large segment of the population) they would have to back hand them. This is an insult rather then a blow to cause damage. It evolved into a challenge when used with a glove. The instruction was not to return or escalate an insult. (sounds familiar)

      Three: When discussing the fulfillment of the law. It is in the context of Jesus addressing Pharisees who were interested in the minimal effort need to enter heaven. This is part of the "sermon on the mount" in Which he says someone having contempt for a brother, is subject to judgment, or calling someone godless "fool" could result in damnation and lustful looks are adultery. Making the law impossible to keep. But saying that if you want to enter heaven via the law you have to keep it perfectly. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life". A saving grace freely given to those that believe.

      Pulling out passages from the bible is easy. I don't claim to know even a small amount of what it contains, but I do know some of the context in which it was written. You may believe what ever you wish. I will believe what I believe. I won't judge you or anyone on your faith or lack of it. I simply ask the same courtesy.

      • 1 vote
      #1.9 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 10:12 AM EDT
      King Dave

      Last one. I did not write this wonderful article. I don't ask for others to share my beliefs or refrain from criticisms. Why do you, and on who's authority do you claim this right. You are not being forced to read this article. You may claim I have no understanding of religion, but what of people like Mark Twain who said, "It's not the parts of the bible that I don't understand that disturbs me, it's the parts that I do." Thanks for your thoughts.

      • 7 votes
      #1.10 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 12:02 PM EDT
      lastone

      I didn't call it a right but a courtesy and I didn't claim you don't understand religion. I put some of the points into historical and cultural context.

      And if this is a single source article it should have been seeded.

        #1.11 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 12:16 PM EDT
        King Dave

        I referenced and linked the website it came from, they give everyone permission to spread, copy, and distribute the word.It is not copyright material. I made this clear. Apparently like the bible you not read the article in it's entirety. My principles will not crumble if you disagree with them. I don't need, seek, or ask permission to criticise religion. I claim the right. You have the right to listen, comment or ignore. Otherwise, no one owes you anything. Religion does not preach tolerance of other faiths, or please quote it for me. It's complete hypocrisy to expect different. The exact subject matter of the article. If you have more criticisms, please have the last words.

        • 4 votes
        #1.12 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 1:26 PM EDT
        smithichie

        My principles will not crumble if you disagree with them. I don't need, seek, or ask permission to criticise religion. I claim the right. You have the right to listen, comment or ignore. Otherwise, no one owes you anything. Religion does not preach tolerance of other faiths, or please quote it for me. It's complete hypocrisy to expect different.

        Bravo! Wish I could vote a few more times for this comment.

        • 4 votes
        #1.13 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 4:24 PM EDT
        Reply
        smithichie

        I have often been told by the Christian that without a god making absolute morality I as an atheist am left picking and choosing what I personally decide to be right and wrong. What many Christians fail to realize is that even while they think they have absolute morality they do indeed pick and choose which of these 'absolute' morals they follow and which they ignore.

        One missing from list? What about keeping the Sabbath day holy by doing NO work. I like to bring that one up every once and a while with online posters on Sundays. Is typing on a computer work? Interestingly enough there's 2 schools of thought among Orthodox Jews about whether typing on a computer violates the Sabbath, so even here we see picking and choosing.

        • 5 votes
        Reply#2 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:59 PM EDT
        ndeepnow

        Jesus did work on the sabbath ..

        • 1 vote
        #2.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:18 AM EDT
        Reply
        MsKat

        The thing is, no one is perfect. I'm sure we can all be hypocrits at some point or another. No one is going to follow all the rules (wherever they may come from) all the time.

        With that being said, I have my pet peeves with the Old Testament vs. New Testament cherry picking. I absolutely agree if you are going pick some "abominations" to disapprove of out of the OT, there's not much justifcation for ignoring others. The obvious one pertains to homosexuality, something that is mentioned all of maybe three times in the Bible? That one gets thrown around constantly but no one ever mentions not eating shellfish or not wearing certain fibers or not eating pork. And I don't recall Jesus ever mentioning anything about homosexuality in the NT. Just an example.

        And I don't hold it against everyone who is a believer. The religion itself is inherently flawed and created for man's self-serving purposes. My mother is a fundamentalist Christian and I love her unconditionally. She's 72 years old, drawing social security, has Parkinson's and scoliosis and still works a part-time job to make ends meet. Just the other day, she told me how bad she feels that she hasn't been able to pay her 10% tithes to the church and that if she would just pay it, the Lord would take care of the rest. I just wanted to shake her; she can barely afford necessary medicine and she's worried about paying tithes? It's things like this that really make me angry. My mother isn't stupid, but she's of a different generation and from a little Mississippi county in the country and she will never change. And neither will some religions that control and dupe their followers with fear, threats, and guilt.

        • 3 votes
        #3 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:33 PM EDT
        King Dave

        Thank you much for your thoughts MsKat. Your Mom seems like my kind of girl. I wouldn't change a thing....

        • 3 votes
        #3.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:46 PM EDT
        ndeepnow

        Mothers always know best. You mother should give her tithes. Jesus will take care of the faithful.

        Jesus also tells us not to eat Buzzards. I don't ever here someone bring that up.

        New Testament

        Romans 1: 21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

        24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

        28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

          #3.2 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:46 PM EDT
          Laochra

          Generally the rebuttal heard is the “Old Testament” versus “New Testament” even though more often than not it’s the old testament I hear screamed in my ear.

          But one thing which proves the hypocrisy of religious extremists (and not all Christians. I know many lovely, non-judgmental people that live and let live, and yes, in order to do that they cherry pick the bible but better that than actually following the bible to the letter which would probably end civilisation as we know it) is the whole gay marriage thing. So apparently we’re living in sin and are abominations etc. etc. Okay, so let’s say for arguments sake they are right yes? And all those millions of people who protest our equal treatment under the law and our wish to live our lives as we see fit are actually correct? I will only consider them not to be hypocrites when I see the same amount of time, numbers and funding being put into abolishing divorce. But considering over 50% of the married population are divorced at least once, that would be far too inconvenient wouldn’t it? Im sure at least half of those people so against us marrying are in fact divorced themselves, statistically speaking. But that will never happen as it is far too inconvenient.

          • 2 votes
          #3.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 AM EDT
          ndeepnow

          Laochra. this is the problem with your argument in the first place. We are all so immoral now that homosexuals are becoming the norm.

          We have all fallen so far and ate up in our own immorality that which was taboo just a few years ago is normal now.

          This is how most say it now. I don't want anyone telling me what to do so I'm not going to say anything to them. So what people are saying i want to be able to do what I want. That's what they are saying. It's not about the other person it's ALL ABOUT THEM.

          We want to be able to do what we want so bad that we don't care.

            #3.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:02 AM EDT
            smithichie

            We are all so immoral now that homosexuals are becoming the norm.

            And you get this idea from a book where slavery and killing are the norm. Go figure.

            • 4 votes
            #3.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:33 AM EDT
            ndeepnow

            No I just look at society and the People. I listen to people. I watch.

              #3.6 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:48 AM EDT
              Laochra

              But that’s the issue that’s under debate here ndeepnow. There are practically no “Pure” Christians any more that follow dogma to the letter and don’t cherry pick or pick and choose as to do so would clash with the laws and morality we have developed as a nation throughout the years (women’s and children rights from the NT perspective, slavery from the OT). However these people that vilify homosexuality and use religion as their justification in 99% of cases are hypocrites in that in some way shape or form they are violating some rule or law of their religion. That’s the hypocrisy. People are using their religion as justification for deny gay people equality however you don’t see the same numbers or funds being placed into anti-divorce campaigns, which is surely a greater threat to traditional marriage and family than homosexuality could ever be. The fact is that nearly all Christians who use their faith as a means of justifying being against something are hypocrites.

              • 4 votes
              #3.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:58 AM EDT
              ndeepnow

              We all sin. We all fall short. But we all must draw a line some where. We must stop sliding down the hill and turn around and start climbing again.

              Read 3.4 again.

                #3.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:32 AM EDT
                katrix

                Do you eat pork, ndeep? Do you wear blended fibers? Do you fail to kill your son if he sasses you? If so, you'd better stop sliding down that hill of depravity.

                • 4 votes
                #3.9 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:21 PM EDT
                ndeepnow

                I eat pork, I wear blended fibers,

                I don't kill anyone. --

                but 1 step forward and 2 steps back doesn't advance you either.

                I love, honor, respect all, BUT I'm also honest, faithful, and sincere

                  #3.10 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:57 PM EDT
                  katrix

                  Those are as bad as homosexuality in the bible - actually they're worse - so I think you need to stop preaching.

                  • 4 votes
                  #3.11 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
                  smithichie

                  I eat pork, I wear blended fibers,

                  I don't kill anyone. --

                  but 1 step forward and 2 steps back doesn't advance you either.

                  I love, honor, respect all, BUT I'm also honest, faithful, and sincere

                  So what makes you better than the homosexual who doesn't eat porkNdeep? Why are you so concerned that homosexuals are being treated as normal (gasp) but make no mention about how normal pork as food is? Why not use McDonald's bringing back the McRib as a sign of our moral decline instead of homosexuals?

                  Heck one could even begin to wonder why an all powerful god is concerned with what we eat or who we sleep with...

                  • 4 votes
                  #3.12 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT
                  ndeepnow

                  Did I ever say I was better than a homosexual??

                    #3.13 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:46 AM EDT
                    smithichie

                    You most certainly implied such. The fact that chose to single out homosexuality as the sign of "our immorality" while ignoring things like McDonald's McRib and Wal-Mart's poly-cotton blended shirts.

                    The reality is if you don't want to eat pork or wear blended fabrics-don't but what others choose to do really ain't your business. The same applies to homosexuality. Think it's wrong? Don't have any gay sex and go on with your life. Who others choose to have sex with (so long as they're consenting adults), really ain't your business.

                    I wouldn't limit the rights of those who choose to eat a McRib and I think it's wrong that we limit the rights of individuals by not allowing them to marry simply because of the sex of the person they happen love.

                    • 4 votes
                    #3.14 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT
                    ndeepnow

                    Well one more time those laws where not for you. Second if you haven't been paying attention they are starting to tell you what you can and can't eat.

                    Thanks,

                      #3.15 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:20 PM EDT
                      smithichie

                      Well one more time those laws where not for you.

                      So why do you claim homosexuality is a sign of "our immorality" if these laws no longer apply?

                      Also where do you get the idea these laws don't apply to Christians? Didn't Jesus say,

                      Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.16 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT
                      ndeepnow

                      Jesus did fulfill the law. He told us we couldn't. That's what the message is. You are not good enough to go on your own. You need to be washed clean by his blood that he shed on the cross.

                      You must accept him. No one else can fulfill the law. No one else can be perfect. he is the only one.

                      You got to love the holy spirit

                        #3.17 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:57 PM EDT
                        katrix

                        Yeah, I have to love a mass murderer. NOT. My morals are far better than that. I cannot worship evil as you do, ndeep. I can't worship anything that condones rape, murder and enslavement. I hope that your god turns you to the good side before it's too late. You worship somthing that commits mass murder while thinking what consenting adults do in bed is wrong ... and ignore the whole pork and fabric thing ... the bible does speak of false prophets. Methinks I have met one.

                        • 2 votes
                        #3.18 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:23 PM EDT
                        ndeepnow

                        See you are showing why Christians will be killed in the near future. Because you believe that we worship someone that does these things. So if Jesus is no good in your eyes then Christians are no good in your eyes.

                        Maybe that is why Jesus gave us this information. It says they believe they are doing god a favor.

                        John 16:2 [a]They will (C)make you outcasts from the synagogue, but (D)an hour is coming for everyone (E)who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. 3 These things they will do (F)because they have not known the Father or Me.

                        I hear a lot of you basically tell me that all the time.

                        John 15:

                        18 “(Y)If the world hates you, [e]you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but (Z)I chose you out of the world, (AA)because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘(AB)A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, (AC)they will also persecute you; if they (AD)kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you (AE)for My name’s sake, (AF)because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 (AG)If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have [f]sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 (AH)If I had not done among them (AI)the works which no one else did, they would not have [g]sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their (AJ)Law, ‘(AK)THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.’

                        26 “When the [h](AL)Helper comes, (AM)whom I will send to you from the Father, that is (AN)the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, (AO)He will testify about Me, 27 [i]and (AP)you will testify also, because you have been with Me (AQ)from the beginning.

                          #3.19 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:35 AM EDT
                          katrix

                          No, what part of "I don't commit murder" didn't you understand? The bible condones murder. I do not. The bible tells you to kill unbelievers. I can think it's despicable without wanting to kill people who worship it. I use facts, not threats, to get my point across. Your bible is all about killing and threats but I am not.

                          And if you think hating mass murder, rape and enslavement is WITHOUT A CAUSE - wow, just wow.

                          • 4 votes
                          #3.20 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:05 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Carolyn-1144975

                          You have taken biblical verses out of context altogether. Many verses were from the Old Testament before Christ gave us a new covenant. Sure there are hypocrits among Christians just as there are other religions as well. We are not perfect and never will be. Our goal is to live according to the Holy Spirit in us everyday, confess and turn from our sins. Who are you to judge me or anyone else? Christ is my judge and no one else.

                            Reply#4 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:37 PM EDT
                            The Gunshark

                            Many verses were from the Old Testament before Christ gave us a new covenant.

                            Did you even read the article? To quote it again:

                            “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”-Matthew 5:18-19 RSV).

                            Thanks for proving the article's point.

                            • 3 votes
                            #4.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:05 PM EDT
                            Baron von Steuben

                            Many verses were from the Old Testament before Christ gave us a new covenant.

                            Didn't catch the point of the article? Anyway, Jesus was only one among many who pretended to be the messiah. He just happened to be a better actor than the others.

                            • 3 votes
                            #4.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:07 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            David-1830107

                            Wow another Christian hit piece. Im an atheist Just not a door knocking atheist.

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#5 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:46 PM EDT
                            King Dave

                            ......Just not a door knocking atheist..... Im an atheist

                            Thanks for forcing that upon us.

                            • 4 votes
                            #5.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:51 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            KElane

                            May I ask a question, which will help me in another discussion? And may I copy the responses?

                            Question one: Do you hate the man Jesus? And briefly, why.

                            Question two: OR-->is it the hypocrisy done in his name? And briefly why.

                            Question three: Or-->both one and two.

                            If you explain why would be helpful and respected [by me, anyway] I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

                            • 1 vote
                            #6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:10 AM EDT
                            King Dave

                            Evidence suggests there was no such person or God man as Jesus. This may not be what I want to believe, but I care about evidence. It's the morality issues with the Bible, too much to mention. Feel free to click on my name above for details. 2: Hypocrisy. On what authority do the religious find to ignore certain mandates and not others? I choose to discuss religion and welcome criticisms. It is clear from history, the religious are sensitive or worst in regards to criticisms and skepticism. Perhaps I am wrong to assume the religious could determine right actions from wrong ones, without the aid of ancient Holy Books.

                            • 3 votes
                            #6.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:58 AM EDT
                            KElane

                            Thanks Dave. I appreciate your candid response. I would have picked #2, also. Good insight. KE

                              #6.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:45 AM EDT
                              SCTexan

                              Evidence suggests there was no such person or God man as Jesus

                              You can argue his deity but there is ample evidence that a Jesus did exist:

                              The Jewish historian Josephus says that he was ressurected, but his account was almost certainly inserted by Christians at a later date, as the parts which deal with Jesus have a remarkably different writing style.

                              The Roman historian Tacitus mentions Jesus in a passage deeply critical towards Christianity, so it's safe to say that he existed.

                              He appears in the dead sea scrolls

                              He even appears in the Qur'an

                              Here is another list that show his existence: http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/Is_There_Evidence_for_Jesus_Outside_the_Bible

                                #6.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:45 AM EDT
                                The Gunshark

                                The Jewish historian Josephus says that he was ressurected, but his account was almost certainly inserted by Christians at a later date, as the parts which deal with Jesus have a remarkably different writing style.

                                SC, do us all a favor and LOOK at the passages before you post them.

                                The Roman historian Tacitus mentions Jesus in a passage deeply critical towards Christianity, so it's safe to say that he existed.

                                Likely also forged due to numerous historical errors. Pontius Pilate, for instance, was a prefect and there were very few, if any, Christians in Rome at the time of the writing.

                                He appears in the dead sea scrolls

                                The Dead Sea Scrolls are Old Testament documents written hundreds of years before Jesus' alleged existence.

                                He even appears in the Qur'an

                                The Qur'an was written some four hundred years after Jesus' alleged existence.

                                Here is another list that show his existence:

                                Stop right there. You are using a Christian website that is, therefore, subject to a confirmation bias.

                                • 3 votes
                                #6.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:48 PM EDT
                                SCTexan

                                Dead Sea Scrolls

                                These manuscripts generally date between 150 BCE and 70 CE

                                Stop right there. You are using a Christian website that is, therefore, subject to a confirmation bias

                                Would expect some atheist group to acknowledge him?

                                My whole point is that he appears in many texts in many parts of the world. Don't get so agitated, I'm not trying to convert anyone.

                                  #6.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:01 PM EDT
                                  KElane

                                  SCTexan ~ I liked your comment. And, I agree. There is plenty of evidence.

                                  My whole point is that he appears in many texts in many parts of the world.

                                  It's amazing so many are agitated by a statement such as this.

                                    #6.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:19 PM EDT
                                    smithichie

                                    He appears in the dead sea scrolls

                                    There isn't a single passage from the New Testament within the Dead Sea Scrolls.

                                    Your own account of Josephus says the Jesus stuff was inserted by Christians, not actually recorded by Josephus.

                                    As for Tacitus, he recorded what early Christians believed, recording beliefs is not the same as recording facts.

                                    As for the Koran, well that's no different Jesus appearing in America like the Mormons believe. Jesus was a popular guy with the Christians so having him appear to Muslims and Mormons lends credibility to their own stories.

                                    Also it's worth noting that if you believe what is in the Koran about Jesus than you have to believe in a Jesus who had no god relations.

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #6.7 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:36 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    I think a serious point has been missed. This man Jesus is a celebrated figure earth wide. Not only that, but his controversy has either bothered people or has enlightened them. His ministry was a mere 3 1/2 years long, his sermon on the mount, the Lord's prayer and many other passages are in constant use, so, even if this man was a fabrication, a made up myth, he has a strong hold on the populace [either for the positive or the negative]. If he were someone who simply passed through or didn't even pass through, he would have been forgotten long-long ago. But, his person has affected lives now for 2000+ years.

                                    NO name is so widely spread and known. NO acts so commonly known and NO single person's saying so popularly used. Say what you want to his non existence. It's so much hot air. He's not a person anyone can erase. It won't happen.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.8 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:01 PM EDT
                                    King Dave

                                    Deep thoughts KElane. I love ancient history. There really appears to be no time when people worshipped gods, that are strikingly similar to Christianity. Always born of a virgin, an insult to women everywhere, always empowering different rulers with dominion over others.

                                    With this realization is it more likely that:

                                    At one time, did one god, created man in his own image?

                                    Or did many men, at many times, create many gods in their own image?

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.9 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:10 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    I think Mary would have disagree with you about being insulted ~ :0-) The big thing in ancient history was for a woman to have a lot of babies. Big deal for them. If they didn't, they believed they were cursed.

                                    Certainly there are plenty of gods out there. Fact for sure. All the ancient ones like Baals and such. But none have withstood time. We still read about them in much of Ancient History, but believe and worship them? Maybe a few here and there.

                                    Whether Jesus is the Son of God, or just a wonderful man, or a myth, he desires respect. He's outlasted them all.

                                    Did God create man in his own image? According to Genesis 1:26 He did.

                                    Or did many men, at many times, create many gods in their own image? Absolutely, but where are they today?

                                    An interesting scripture found in Isaiah 44:14-20 where a woodsman chops a tree down. Part of it he builds a fire and warms himself, the other part, he cooks meat with it and then the last part he carves an image and actually prostrates himself to the image. It says: "They have not come to know, nor do they understand because their eyes have been besmeared so as not to see, their heart so as to have no insight. And no one recalls to his heart or has knowledge or understanding, saying: 'the half of it I have burned up in a fire, and upon its coals I have also baked bread; I roasted flesh and eat. But the rest of it shall I make into a mere detestable thing? To the dried-out wood of a tree shall I prostrate myself?'"

                                    It sounds pretty silly, doesn't it? To chop a tree down, warm yourself, cook your food and then worship a carved image that you had carved out of the remains.

                                    I, also, enjoy history [and science]. [I wish I would have studied archaeology] The Bible is very interesting and detailed and [sadly] often misrepresented and misunderstood. If a person is interested in what's in the Bible, a wise student would take the time to investigate in detail what they are being taught. :0-)

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.10 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:14 PM EDT
                                    katrix

                                    KElane, read about Osiris, Isis, and so many other religious myths. They are fascinating. Then let's talk. If a person is interested in the bible, a wise person would read up on everything he/she could find on other religions and ancient myths.

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #6.11 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:25 PM EDT
                                    King Dave

                                    KDlane:

                                    The bible got some morality correct, but lots of others are atrocious, and clearly not the work of god, but a psychopath. I admittedly, willingly and without apology, focus on the absurdities of religions. Some one has too. ;-)

                                    There are as many Hindus as Christians that have different creation stories. As a point of reference to Jesus in India we have:

                                    Hanuman Hindu monkey god) was born to Anjana, a female vanara, and Kesari, a male vanara, in Anjana Giri mountain. His mother was an apsara who was born on Earthas a female vanara due to a curse. She would be redeemed from this curse on her giving birth to an incarnation of Lord Shiva, who is also known as Rudra, and endowed with the Supreme Power of exalted devotion to Bhagwan Hari. Hanuman is endowed with 28 transcendental divine opulences, with perfection in each.

                                    The world is no less interesting without religion.

                                    Check out this place, thousands of years before the bible claims the Earth was even here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #6.12 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:47 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    Well Katrix, I do know a little bit about them, and, yes, I find them interesting. What was it you wanted to talk about?

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #6.13 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:52 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    The bible got some morality correct, but lots of others are atrocious, and clearly not the work of god, but a psychopath. I admittedly, willingly and without apology, focus on the absurdities of religions. Some one has too. ;-)

                                    You know KD, I would focus on these acts. I don't mind discussing them if you so desire--even if we do NOT agree. A lot of times there's more to it than meets the eye. Just sharing might open both our eyes to something we hadn't thought about.

                                    I don't like ridicule. It's unnecessary and lacks intelligence. But a good honest discussion is enjoyable.

                                    You have your reasons for the way you feel, as does [I'm sure] Katrix. But, I do too. I didn't come by it by having someone tell me what I believe. I investigated it myself.

                                    I checked out your link. It sounds like the Tower of Babel! I'd like to check it out more. Very interesting.

                                    One other thing. Bible chronology dates the Bible writing's beginning sometime after 1513 B.C.E. Were you thinking that the Bible was the oldest writings? You know, honestly, I've never thought about earlier writings.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.14 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:23 PM EDT
                                    King Dave

                                    Were you thinking that the Bible was the oldest writings?

                                    Absolutely not. A lot of the old testament stories were plagiarized from ancient Egyptian stories. I should say, ripped off and changed for nefarious reasons. I find it fascinating the the great pyramids were built 1000's of years prior to biblical writing and biblical history.

                                    The earliest writing and perhaps urban dwelling is by the Sumerians in modern day Iraq. Here is a link to that: http://www.ancientscripts.com/sumerian.html Archeology is discovering a lot was going on before most agree humans were civilized.

                                    Here is where the 10 commandments were ripped from:

                                    The Code of Hammurabi is a well-preserved Babylonianlaw code, dating to ca. 1700 BCE (short chronology). It is one of the oldest deciphered writings of significant length in the world. The sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi, enacted the code, and partial copies exist on a human-sized stone stele and various clay tablets. The Code consists of 282 laws, with scaled punishments, adjusting "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" (lex talionis)[1] as graded depending on social status, of slave versus free man....

                                    The Code of Hammurabi was one of several sets of laws in the ancient Near East.[7]

                                    Earlier collections of laws include the Code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur(ca. 2050 BCE), the Laws of Eshnunna(ca. 1930 BCE) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin(ca. 1870 BCE), while later ones include the Hittite laws, the Assyrian laws, and Mosaic Law.

                                    For me, the more I learn about ancient history, the less impressive Christianity and mundane religion becomes.

                                    I enjoy talking with you KElane, and thank you for sharing your thought here.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.15 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:56 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    I enjoyed talking with you also....

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.16 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:23 PM EDT
                                    The Gunshark

                                    I find it fascinating the the great pyramids were built 1000's of years prior to biblical writing and biblical history.

                                    The funny thing is that they didn't even check their work when constructing the awful Moses story. The Pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid volunteers and temporary workers.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #6.17 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:16 AM EDT
                                    katrix

                                    KElane, it seems to me that the resurrection and immaculate conception were taken from Osiris and Isis - that's why I asked about them. What's your take on that?

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #6.18 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:07 PM EDT
                                    KElane

                                    katrix ~ I'm not sure I have a take on your question. :-0) But I do know that Christendom has borrowed many teachings and infiltrated them into their doctrines. Just as some examples Google the following:

                                    The origins of: Christmas, Easter, Hell-Fire, and the Trinity.

                                    All are pagan teachings.

                                    It's noteworthy that the Bible brings attention to these teachings and draws honest hearted ones away from them and into accurate knowledge. At one time God's message for the Israelites were: I had planted you as a choice red vine, all of it a true see. [free from paganism ~ my insert] So how have you been changed toward me into the degenerate shoots of a foreign vine? [Jeremiah 2:21] The Israelites were deep into pagan worship. Sacrificing to Baal, making sweet cakes to the Goddess of Heaven ~ Astarte [who derived from many other gods through history], sacrificing to the high places and so forth. Christendom just followed suit. Daniel 12:4

                                    That there are similarities, I wouldn't doubt.

                                      #6.19 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:48 PM EDT
                                      katrix

                                      It always interests me why so many people just can't accept that - that much of Christianity (just as with many other religions) was taken from older writings. The proof is there, and it's absolutely fascinating to read about.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #6.20 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:56 PM EDT
                                      JM California

                                      It always interests me why so many people just can't accept that

                                      Why should they?

                                      Aren’t you suggesting that they abandon their hope of eternal life?

                                      I have participated in many Vine discussions about religion. There have been great moments. Thanks to the magic of the Vine, I have witnessed the greatness of religion from many points of views.

                                      Those that believe and remain steadfast with their faith have humbled me by their dedication, patience and consistency. I am glad to have them as friends and would never wish to challenge their precious faith, unless they’re open to it. I am actually surprised, with myself that I have come to this conclusion.

                                      The Vine has unexpectedly exposed me to a significant number of religious people who are harmless, love their neighbors and continue to contribute to society. It amazes me that the Internet can have such influence and has developed, for me, a renewed tolerance (and respect) for beliefs that are contrary to my own.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #6.21 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:28 PM EDT
                                      katrix

                                      I guess I don't see why they'd have to abandon their hope of eternal life by accepting it.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #6.22 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:42 PM EDT
                                      KElane

                                      That there were earlier writings is reasonable. Are there some who deny it? Think about Genesis, Exodus and the other early writings by Moses and put the timing in perspective. Moses was born [according to Bible Chronology] in 1593 B.C.E.; Adam was created about 4025/4026 B.C.E. That's an awful lot of years for nothing to be written down. :0-) There had to be records and information for Moses to feed off of.

                                      Something that might interest you is the Bible refers to other books as references. One being "the book of the affairs of the days of the kings of Israel." [1 Kings 14:19; 2 Kings 15:31] Also, "the book of the affairs of the times of the kings of Judah." [1 Kings 14:29; 2 Kings 24:5] I guess the point is that there most definitely were other writings and some had to be much earlier than the Bible. If there are references to other writings as I showed here, wouldn't it seem reasonable that Moses would have had and used references from other writings? Though there's no indication or source saying he did, it certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the Bible writer to do so. Now, that would be my opinion.

                                      It is interesting! I'd have to agree.

                                        #6.23 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:42 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        ERich-356044

                                        I am leaving a quick note to be able to come back to this....

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#7 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:47 AM EDT
                                        Baron von Steuben

                                        Religion must by it's very nature contain hypocrisy in order to rectify the laws of the past with the ever changing socio-political makeup of evolving human society. Religion is the conception by which ancient tribes were governed. That there was need to maintain population growth and social hierarchy is reflected in the very teachings of any given religion. Of course, who better to enforce such laws than an all-powerful god? By this point in human history we should have moved beyond such foolishness, yet there are those who cling to their beliefs and slow the progress of all mankind.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#8 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:11 AM EDT
                                        katrix

                                        "Good" religious people have to cherry pick, or at least not to take the bible literally. Otherwise they're worshipping evil. So I really don't have a problem with that; they're trying to take what they see as God's message of love, and they can't do that while believing he truly committed all the atrocities attributed to him. The difference is that they admit they don't accept it all.

                                        But yes, your article is correct, and what's even funnier is how when someone points out one of these things they try to ignore, they ask for the scripture - as if they didn't know their bible.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        Reply#9 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:17 PM EDT
                                        DocPhil

                                        One of the things that turned me to atheism was the inconsistency of religion and the inconsistency of those who profess belief. This does not only occur in Christianity, but in Judaism and Islam alike. The believer is always selective. The passages that they with to comply with, are viewed as truisms, those which they decide not to follow are considered to be dated or superseded by later scripture. That is hypocrisy. If the bible is a god written or god inspired book, every thing in it must be sacred. King Dave points those inconsistencies out beautifully in his article.

                                        As to the factual being of Jesus, it is important to note that all record of his existence, and even more to the point, his divine nature were all developed post hoc. They were written long after his "death" and "resurrection". They were written primarily as a way as attracting converts from first the Jews, and when that didn't work, from the Roman pagans. The new testament matches old roman religious documents more closely than any original scripture. It changed according to the population being proselytized. Not exactly the highest of ethical goals.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        Reply#10 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:37 PM EDT
                                        KElane

                                        1) "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (l Corinthians 11:14). How many freaked out long-haired, bible thumping Jesus freaks do you know? Perhaps this is just my experience, but I can name 12 such individuals off the top of my head. Surely, you can recall at least ONE LONG-HAIRED CHRISTIAN. The stereotypical version of CHRIST HIMSELF! Think of the numerous statues and pictures Christians adore depicting the lord appearing as that which he detests. One can not stop and wonder at the absurdity of this.

                                        An FYI: Just a bit of interesting trivia. Jesus was from the city of Nazereth. He was not a Nazirite. For some reason many get the two confused and paint Jesus as a Nazirite.

                                        There were two classes of Nazirites. Those who volunteered and those who were appointed by divine appointment. The regulations of a Nazirite can be found in Numbers chapter 6.

                                        The regulations of a Nazirite was that they couldn’t drink wine or eat any product from the vine, they weren’t to cut their hair, nor were they to touch a dead body. Samson did have one exception to one rule in that he was able to touch the dead.

                                        A few examples of life time Nazirites were Samuel [1 Samuel 1:9-11], Samson [Judges 13:2-14 16:17], John the Baptist [Luke 1:11-15]. So, more than likely Jesus did have short hair since he obviously drank wine and did raise the dead.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#11 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
                                        KElane

                                        P.S. Thanks for sharing this... [Forgot to put that in my last comment] ;0-)

                                          #11.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:55 PM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          JM California

                                          Great essay, King Dave. I'm glad to have discovered you.

                                          You put a lot of information out there. Almost every religious person cherry picks. All religions are at a crossroads. How can the "infallible" text be modernized?

                                          Perhaps, modernization is unnecessary when children continue to be brought into the fold by early indoctrination (brainwashing).

                                          • 6 votes
                                          Reply#12 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:48 PM EDT
                                          SouthLa

                                          JM, it's only "brainwashing" if you don't agree with it. If you raise your children to follow your belief system, then some could say the same about you. To each his own.

                                          My circle of friends include Atheists, Southern Baptists, Muslims, Catholics, and Non Denominational christians. we manage to have some pretty cool talks about faith with out being condescending.

                                          Maybe you should give that a shot.

                                            #12.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:10 PM EDT
                                            JM California

                                            SouthLa

                                            It is brainwashing if the indoctrination begins very early.

                                            Whether I agree or disagree with your version of a Creator has nothing to do with the process of religious indoctrination. Why not wait until the child reaches a level of intellectual maturity before teaching them about something that will affect their entire life? Do you want mindless robotic followers of a religion or ones that truly accept it, based on mature, reasoned choice?

                                            I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I am suggesting waiting for maturity before in depth teaching. This is a point of view that is indeed controversial, but at least it is worth considering.

                                            Condescending? Because you don't agree with me? I think you're assuming something.

                                            I would not encourage or discourage my child from developing their own spirituality. I would encourage humility and values that I cherry pick from many religions and people...as long as they are not harmful to others. Whatever direction is ultimately selected, I hope is chosen with maturity and reason.

                                            • 6 votes
                                            #12.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT
                                            SouthLa

                                            JM- I hear where you are coming from. It's just brainwashing seems kind of a harsh term. i was bein kind of prickish, my bad, and btw i believe that there is something out there. I just haven't figured out exactly what it is yet.

                                              #12.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:07 PM EDT
                                              JM California

                                              SouthLa

                                              Thanks for that. It certainly seems that there may be a "watchmaker". Humanity is trying very hard to make sense of such a possibility, as am I.

                                              FR sent. Hope you will accept!

                                              • 4 votes
                                              #12.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:17 PM EDT
                                              SouthLa

                                              Accepted! Look forward to hearing your POV, at least I think that is the point of the exercise.

                                                #12.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Socrates1

                                                Perhaps the most interesting thing is that I would suggest the very same people complaining would be the one's to complain the loudest if all of these restrictions were indeed practiced by the majority of American Christians.

                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#13 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:43 PM EDT
                                                JM California

                                                Hello Socrates1. Hope you are doing well.

                                                I agree with your point.

                                                Some of the restrictions are still practiced. If they are fair, responsible and respectful of others, that's fine with me.

                                                • 4 votes
                                                #13.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:05 PM EDT
                                                Socrates1

                                                Thank you.

                                                And the same to you.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #13.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:11 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Socrates1

                                                Foregive them Lord, for they know not what they do.........

                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#14 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:29 PM EDT
                                                tesla013

                                                "Is every Christian a Hypocrite? Selective morality and Bible teachings ignored."

                                                Says it all.

                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#15 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:40 PM EDT
                                                kdreeves

                                                They quote Jesus and Paul profusely, with a liberal sprinkling of Old Testament moralism.

                                                I do agree with this, and I am Christian [although a bit 'untraditional', you might say.]

                                                When you see them expounding a verse and ignoring another, call them on it.

                                                I practice this myself. It drives me crazy when people do that.

                                                The people you describe, IMHO, are confused, afraid to question the very things you suggest, address the very contradictions you describe, because they have been taught one should not question the content of the Bible, that every word is inspired by God, and that one should never question God. And they are terrified to do this. But so many generations have been taught this for so long, it's become a deeply ingrained mind-set--a case of serious group-think. They have learned a combination of fear-based theology, and the one that Jesus taught about a loving and gracious God. It took me awhile to confront this in myself, to abandon the belief in a wrathful God, and listen to my own instincts. Took me longer to say it out loud, and I am still in the process of "coming out of the closet" to my family and others.

                                                But there seems to be a growing movement to correct this. Many people have come to realize the difference between what is often demonstrated and what it really should be. And if we keep speaking up, I think it will make a difference. There are other types of Christians out there--we're not hiding, and you can find us if you look. Explore online further and you will find them and see what they are accomplishing.

                                                What I find so interesting is how well you have applied your critical thinking skills to this, and just how much an atheist can know about what real Christianity--and Christ--looks like.... ;-)

                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#16 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 4:53 AM EDT
                                                kdreeves

                                                How many times have you heard some lame ass Christian say “the Old testament doesn’t matter, Jesus was the lamb and abolished it”? Don’t let them get away with this @!$%# for even the bible says that they should still be following the Old Law.

                                                Actually what Jesus said was all of the law and commandments could be wrapped up in the commandment to love. Specifically:

                                                Romans 13:9
                                                The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
                                                Romans 13:8-10

                                                To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
                                                Mark 12:32-34

                                                To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
                                                Mark 12:32-34

                                                I think Jesus was trying to clarify things for us, and give us a simple litmus test for knowing if something is truly godly or not. Is it service-to-others or service-to-self? Servie-to-self serves only the self, but the service-to-others choice serves all, including the self. A much better choice, yes?

                                                  Reply#17 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 5:21 AM EDT
                                                  Michael in S J

                                                  I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged my atheism.

                                                  As I have said many times on the 'Vine: I have no need for a god and I do not consider myself an atheist, but I understand your statement and have a problem with it.

                                                  One of my associates is a very catholic catholic, is on the board of a local catholic high school and on of the west coast's premier universities, a jesuit university, is active in diocese affairs and has NEVER questioned my position vis-a-vis a god.

                                                  My neighbor across the street is very active as a lay minister in some christian church and we socialize often. He has NEVER question my position vis-a-vis a god. (But one of my wife's pentecostal members thought she was going to hell because we had a chocolate wedding cake!)

                                                  When I married 35 years ago, the minister in the non-denominational church asked me once if I was a christian and when I said no, nothing more was said and we discussed other things. (But one of my wife's pentecostal practitioners thought my wife was going to hell because we had a chocolate wedding cake!)

                                                  I say this because not every christian is a psuedo-christian. Some are actually intelligent people (at least the ones I associate with) and understand the conflicts and inconsistencies in a book written on a 300 year period of time.

                                                  But, they do try to adhere their christ's teachings, as appropriate, and realize that not everyone believes them same as they, and they do not have a need to convert all of us "heathens" as we are described in the mostly out of date gospel.

                                                  Are they hypocrits: no, not all! Some are out there trying to sort out their personal and family realities among many competing realities and most of them will come out fine at the end.

                                                    Reply#18 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 12:01 AM EDT
                                                    Michael in S J

                                                    cut and paste, cut and paste not copy and paste.

                                                      #18.1 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 12:04 AM EDT
                                                      katrix

                                                      Chocolate cake is a sin??? LOL - I never knew that. What about Godiva hot chocolate - that's even more decadent ;)

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #18.2 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 8:43 AM EDT
                                                      Reply
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