Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit King Dave's column >>

KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
Articles Posted: 77  Links Seeded: 292
Member Since: 2/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

"But first, dig your own Grave!" ~ The Holy Bible ~ Abraham and Isaac

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:51 PM EDT
religion, christianity, violence, atheism, common-sense
By King Dave

Rembrandt ~ Abraham en Isaac, 1634

Advertise | AdChoices

Today we hear a heartwarming story—a story of love, commitment, trust and faith.

LOL. Yeah right. No. This is actually a story about a guy who tries to kill his son because the voice of God told him to.

“Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, ‘Abraham!’

‘Here I am,’ He replied.

Then God said, ‘Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.’” —Genesis 22:1&2

I’m not making this up, the Bible—GOD—really says that.

I would like to point out that this section in my Bible has lots of really long study notes to go with it. Everything up until this point has been relatively short and unnecessary, but Christians feel that this story needs a lot of explaining for some reason… I can’t imagine why…

First, notice that God ‘tests’ Abraham. The note in my Bible makes the distinction between ‘test’ and ‘tempt’ very clear. God doesn’t ‘tempt’, He only ‘tests’. Because ‘testing’ is so much better than ‘tempting’. Why would a perfect, all-knowing and merciful god need to ‘test’ anybody? And why would anyone want to worship a God who would test them in this way?

Second, God really stresses how important Isaac is to Abraham: “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love…” It’s bad enough that God is telling Abraham to sacrifice his son, but also his only son (remember that Ishmael was effectively disowned when he was sent away). And not only is it Abraham’s only son, but he is also his son whom he loves.

And third: “Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering.”—“Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering”—“SACRIFICE HIM there as a BURNT OFFERING”

“Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. He said to his servants, ‘Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.’” —Genesis 22:3-5

Abraham wouldn’t even beg and plead for his son’s life? What kind of dad is he? Instead, he just gets up the next morning and sets about getting ready for the big bonfire later. Unquestioning obedience to his God, something that Christian’s admire and seek after.

Just a bit of advice: if ‘God’ is telling you to sacrifice your children as a burnt offering, it probably isn’t ‘God’ and you PROBABLY SHOULDN’T DO IT!!! A God who is any kind of God doesn’t need sacrifice and especially not sacrifice of innocent young children. Christians: STOP GLORIFYING THIS!!!

Notice, too, that Abraham says that ‘we will worship and then we will come back to you.’ The note in my Bible says that Abraham was in denial, or he just believed that God would raise his son from the dead (after Abraham brutally murders him, of course). Seems more likely to me that he was lying because if he says ‘I will come back’ then the servants and his son might get suspicious. But his son get’s suspicious anyway:

“Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, ‘Father?’

‘Yes, my son?’ Abraham replied.

‘The fire and wood are here,’ Isaac said, ‘but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?’

Abraham answered, ‘God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.’ And the two of them went on together.” —Genesis 22:6-8

This sickens me. Poor Isaac has full trust in his father and has no reason to think that his father would do him harm. Abraham lies to him and Isaac accepts the explanation without question. This exemplifies how children in the church are raised. They trust their parents and (as I can attest) can’t imagine how their parents could ever be wrong or why their parents would ever lie to them.

“When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, ‘Abraham! Abraham’

‘Here I am,’ he replied.” —Genesis 22:9-11

"Celebration" - Episode 1 - God + beer = trouble. While dictating the Torah to Moses, God reveals the true story of Abraham and Isaac... Subscribe to 'celebrationtv' and keep up to date with the latest comedy sketches from the "Celebration" team.

I can’t even imagine what was going through Isaac’s mind. Christian’s like to sugar coat the story by saying that Isaac probably understood Abraham’s need to obey his god—but no. There is no possible way that Isaac, a scared little boy, had any conception of god, and if he did—it was not a nice friendly god, this god wanted to do Isaac harm! This god was NOT just. This god was NOT merciful. This god told Isaac’s father to KILL HIM! Isaac must have been terrified, he must have been screaming and crying and begging for his father to stop. He must have been struggling against the ropes and against the dried and splintered wood. He must have suffered bruises as he attempted to escape from his fathers clutches as he was strapped to the altar. He must have been bleeding from cuts and rope burn as he fought to free himself. Isaac was NOT okay with this, don’t let ANY Christian tell you otherwise—EVER.

Luckily for Isaac, God changed his mind at the last minute. I’m sorry, he didn’t change his mind, after all, he was just testing Abraham anyway. This story makes me physically ill.

“‘Do not lay a hand on the boy,’ he said. ‘Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.’” —Genesis 22:12

God’s like, ‘I just needed to be sure you were afraid of me, looks like you are, so we are good!’ What kind of god is this? You have got to be kidding me! God is supposed to be all-knowing, he should have been able to tell that Abraham ‘feared’ him WITHOUT making Abraham almost kill his son.

‘Fearing God’, according to Christians, means to trust absolutely in Him.

“Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. So Abraham called that place The Lord Will Provide. And to this day it is said, ‘On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.’” —Genesis 22:13&14

So somehow this bloodbath gets made into a catchy phrase that people say ‘to this day’.

(If you can’t tell, this passage pisses me off)

“The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, ‘I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed because you obeyed me.’” —Genesis 22:15-18

Great, so what does Abraham get out of almost sacrificing his son? The same @!$%#ing promise that he has been getting since he first left his father’s household!

“Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.” —Genesis 22:19

Still today, parents kill their children because ‘God’ or ‘angels’ or ‘demons’ etc. tell them to. This in NO WAY is justified. We call these people insane. Abraham is not exempt.

I’m just—I’m speechless guys. I really am. Stupidity like this is intolerable.

Totally ripped from http://atheistbiblestudy.tumblr.com/post/3494996882/god-tells-abraham-to-kill-his-son

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • King Dave's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Atheism, Free Thinkers, Harbingers of The Apocalypse
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (32)
King Dave

"...religious types who think that any dislike or criticism for any “faith group” is ipso facto proof of some sort of prejudice. Sorry, but this will not wash. I think attempts to silence criticism of such outfits are the real evidence of prejudice."~ Christopher Hitchens (Paraphrased quote)

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:05 PM EDT
Rank on Rank

"But first, dig your own Grave!"

These words do not appear in any translation of the Bible.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:19 PM EDT
bluearcher

Poor Isaac has full trust in his father and has no reason to think that his father would do him harm. Abraham lies to him and Isaac accepts the explanation without question. This exemplifies how children in the church are raised. They trust their parents and (as I can attest) can’t imagine how their parents could ever be wrong or why their parents would ever lie to them.

Perpetuating superstitious myth to more easily assuage feelings and explain concepts?

There are so many better sources of literature to explain concepts like morality, love, sacrifice, without having to avoid a minefield of petty human emotion and untenable concepts within the Bible.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:23 PM EDT
King Dave

But first, dig your own Grave!"

These words do not appear in any translation of the Bible.

Know your Bible Rank: Genesis 22: KJV

7And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

Close enough!

8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb...

Abraham Lying his azz off!

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:40 PM EDT
Rank on Rank

King Dave,

The wood and fire were for the sacrifice. Not for Isaac, Abraham's son to dig his own grave. The very idea is stupid.

And GOD did provide a lamb. Or didn't you finish reading the chapter?

GOD also provided Himself the Lamb of GOD to take away the sin of the world, Jesus Christ.

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:52 PM EDT
King Dave

The wood and fire were for the sacrifice.

Yes, for the sacrifice Isaac. If you don't believe that, I'm sorry but whatever your faith is, it is nothing recognizable as Christianity.

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:17 PM EDT
Rank on Rank

My point is there is no "dig your own grave" reference in the Bible as the title of your article claims.

Yes, Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son. That's all GOD wanted to see. I know you cannot fathom the importance of his sacrifice, but GOD accepted it, and Abraham walked off with his son alive!

All Jews, Christians, and Muslims acknowledge that.

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:27 PM EDT
King Dave

there is no "dig your own grave"

It's a metaphorical reference, because Abraham did have his son Isaac gather the wood for his funeral pyre under a false pretence. Isaac thought it was for an animal sacrifice, not himself. Plain and simple, there is nothing moral about a god that toys with his subjects. Also the Bible is completely silent in condemning child abuse. The religious have noticed this in practice.

  • 3 votes
#1.7 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:39 PM EDT
Rank on Rank

because Abraham did have his son Isaac gather the wood for his funeral pyre under a false pretence.

First, this is what comes from reading or listening to what the godless say about the Bible, and not reading it yourself.

Abraham got the wood and his son carried it. There was no "dig your own grave" anywhere in that scenario. Abraham built the altar and laid the wood and offered his son as a sacrifice. GOD accepted the willingness of Abraham not even to withhold his son, his only son, from Him. And GOD provided a lamb, a ram to be exact, for the sacrifice. For Abraham's obedience to the The Almighty, GOD blessed him and his descendants. See rich Jews and rich Arabs. They are glad they're descended from Abraham!

Plain and simple, there is nothing moral about a god that toys with his subjects.

"Toys with"? No. GOD doesn't toy with any of us. GOD was serious about Abraham, and Isaac, and everyone of us. The trouble is you still think you're here on earth to do what you want when we are really here to do what GOD wants.

And worse, you're seeking to find fault with an Infinitely Perfect and Righteous GOD. That's a fool's errand.

Also the Bible is completely silent in condemning child abuse.

See, this is what I mean. If you had read the Bible yourself instead of what other unbelievers say about the Bible, you wouldn't have made such a rash and WRONG statement.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." ~Matthew 18:6

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. ~Matthew 18:10

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. ~Mark 9:42

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." ~Luke 17:2

So let's see. That's 1.2.3.4 places in the Bible where the Lord Jesus Himself warns against child abuse. The "religious" are not excluded from these biblical warnings.

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:40 PM EDT
King Dave

So Rank, it seem the only opposition you have to killing ones child for god, is the method I used to describe it..I also gather you are not aware what a biblical burnt offering is? This is a main difference between believers and non. I don't need a god sent angle, or anyone to convince me killing children is wrong.

But take the last word: Gathering from your comments, and the depths of your biblical knowledge; Tell us why you believe if god says kill your own child, one should not hesitate?

  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:48 AM EDT
katrix

I have to wonder, would those who approve of this story murder their own children if God told them to do so? It's a scary thought.

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:46 AM EDT
Rank on Rank

So Rank, it seem the only opposition you have to killing ones child for god, is the method I used to describe it.

Is that where you want to take this now? I have already proved the title of your article is false and misleading. A reasonable person would have merely changed the title to reflect the new facts.

also gather you are not aware what a biblical burnt offering is?

What makes you say that? Perhaps you should work on your "gathering" skills.

This is a main difference between believers and non.I don't need a god sent angle, or anyone to convince me killing children is wrong.

That's because no unbeliever has ever abused a child. Correct?

Tell us why you believe if god says kill your own child, one should not hesitate?

Isn't that what is called a "straw man argument"?

'A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position, twisting his words or by means of [false] assumptions' -Wikipedia

    #1.11 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT
    Reply
    katrix

    I've never heard any Christian say anything about this story that explains how they could worship something that would do this. Unfortunately, insane people TO THIS DAY kill their kids because they hear voices in their heads. Thank goodness Abraham's voices in his head finally told him to stop. Although they also said he'd take over the cities of his enemies - some nice God you have there. Just loves killing and conquering and enslaving.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#2 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:04 PM EDT
    Rank on Rank

    Katrix,

    Correction. Abraham only heard one voice. That was the voice of GOD which also told Abraham, that he would be the father of many nations. Today, Jews, Arabs, Muslims and Christians call Abraham their father. And he is.

    As for "killing, conquering and enslaving": Human beings have been responsible for that throughout the ages. Even people who didn't believe in GOD were just as guilty as those who did. It isn't as if atheists or unbelievers can claim any evidence of superiority here. Put the blame where it belongs. Accept responsibilty for human nature.

    • 4 votes
    #2.1 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:28 PM EDT
    katrix

    I completely accept responsibility for human nature, Rank. But I also can read, and the bible has many examples of God not only committing mass murder, but condoning rape, slavery and murder. Unbelievers can commit atrocities too, but at least they don't try to justify it by some divine order. And if Abraham really existed, we'd be better off without him - considering he's the justification Christians and Muslims have used for centuries to justify killing other people.

    • 2 votes
    #2.2 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:35 PM EDT
    King Dave

    How fortunate?Christians tell us not only does the creator of the universe look like a middle aged white man, but this god must be given endless praise for giving us dominion over women, every living creature and every thing on Earth.

    Is there any limit to what the religious will believe?

    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:03 PM EDT
    katrix

    Don't forget his mercy and benevolence - he won't kill us as long as we feed his massive ego. Unless he's feeling irritable, of course, and just feels like "testing" someone. Reminds me of one of the Greek God movies, where Zeus and Thor (I think) were sitting up there, throwing lightning bolts at these little humans running around, laughing their asses off as the humans jumped at the hotfoot. I guess we do tend to create our gods in our image, regardless of the era in which we create them. Petty, jealous, egotistical and atrocious. Funny that we create them with our worst qualities instead of our best, but I guess that's how we can explain why bad things happen.

    • 2 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:08 PM EDT
    Rank on Rank

    You have obviously misread the Bible, Katrix. Just as King Dave did with that "dig your own grave" nonsense.

    When has Abraham ever been used as justification for killing anyone?

    Actually, Christians, Arabs, and Jews are better off being descended of Abraham. Jews have been bless to contribute disproportionately to the scientific and knowledge base of humanity. Arabs are possessors of vast energy reserves. Christians are blessed because of Abraham through Jesus Christ. The blessing of Abraham has brought material prosperity to these groups because GOD said He would bless them.

    GOD is the Creator of Life, the Universe is His creation, and so are the people in it. If you create anything you have the prerogative of destroying it if it displeases you. Where has GOD committed mass murder? GOD promises judgment upon His enemies and the unrepentant.

    GOD allowed slavery for a purpose. Where in the Bible He condone rape? If I read my Bible correctly, rape carries the death penalty Deuteronomy 22:25 There is a death penalty instituted by GOD for murder as well.

    That atheists and those who reject GOD have found reasons to mass murder is no comfort. If they using their natural intellect didn't know that their deeds were wrong. What hope is there? A person, even an atheist secular humanist can do wrong and find reasons to justify his crimes against humanity. Not the same as using GOD as pseudo-justification, but equally as bad, if being rational, secular, godless is all humanity is left to rely on.

    • 2 votes
    #2.5 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
    Rank on Rank

    How fortunate?Christians tell us not only does the creator of the universe look like a middle aged white man, but this god must be given endless praise for giving us dominion over women, every living creature and every thing on Earth.

    King Dave,

    Whoever told you GOD looks like a middle aged white man? Jesus is a Jew from the middle east! Ever seen an Arab?

    Is there any limit to what the religious will believe?

    Is there any limit to the lies atheists will believe about GOD?

    • 2 votes
    #2.6 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:19 PM EDT
    katrix

    If you create anything you have the prerogative of destroying it if it displeases you

    That is just plain sickening. I feel sorry for you, worshipping something that evil. You actually justify the mass murder that your God has committed and say it's not murder when he does it? And I sure hope your kids never displease you; sounds as if you think it's fine for you to follow the bible's example and murder them if they do.

    And actually, the bible tells you that if someone rapes your daughter, you should make him buy her from you. Then he gets to rape her for the rest of her life. Again, just plain sickening.

    • 1 vote
    #2.7 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:50 AM EDT
    Rank on Rank

    That is just plain sickening. I feel sorry for you, worshipping something that evil.

    Katrix,

    Trying to find fault with a Holy GOD will get you no where. Make your peace with GOD through Jesus Christ. Or you will one day regret it.

    And actually, the bible tells you that if someone rapes your daughter, you should make him buy her from you.

    The scripture you may be refering to more aptly relates to premarital sex. Sex with a boyfriend, we would call it today. I don't think you would impose a death penalty for that. You would merely make him pay the bride price in that culture.

    I already gave the scripture which correctly applied to forcible rape.

      #2.8 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:34 AM EDT
      katrix

      There you go with the threats. I knew they wouldn't be far off. My morals don't permit me to worship a mass murderer; and worshipping something so it won't kill you is really twisted. If you don't want to find fault with evil, that's your option, but I won't ever regret following the golden rule instead of the bible.

      And no, the scripture I was referring to was about RAPE, not consensual premarital sex. The biblical god is an unholy monster.

      • 1 vote
      #2.9 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:56 PM EDT
      Rank on Rank

      I won't ever regret following the golden rule instead of the bible.

      Uh, Katrix, the golden rule comes from the Bible.

      The biblical god is an unholy monster.

      No, the Biblical GOD is Jesus Christ.

        #2.10 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:22 PM EDT
        katrix

        No, the golden rule predates the bible. It is just another thing that Christianity took from earlier cultures, like the resurrection.

        • 1 vote
        #2.11 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:30 PM EDT
        Reply
        frenchjr56

        May I ask why jump into the middle of the story, to argue a complete opinion? It's like coming in on a movie at the mid-way point and knowing all the character interactions and understanding the ending before the conclusion comes to pass. Athesists hate God and his way of doing things, so this I feel is about Isaac being sacrificed, as a test of Abraham's faith. The scripture at Hebrews 11:17-19 bears this point out. But no background was done about what was leading up to this act or the people involved. Or even why Jehovah God asked for this to happen.

        Abraham was childless when Jehovah came to him in a vision(Gen. 15th chap.); and God assured Abram that an heir would come from his loins and would be great in numbers. Jehovah God also foretold the enslavement of his ancestors "in a land not theirs" for over 400 years.[vss.13-16]

        In chapter 16 Sarai being childless, felt the need to produce a child through a surrogate. She allowed Abram to sleep with her maidservant, Hagar and she became pregnant. Verses 4-6 shows the result of overstepping what Jehovah wanted. Patience was not shown by either Abram or Sarai. She suggested this course and then regretted it.

        Verses 17-16 bears out Hagar's trials and Jehovah's promise to Abram's son. Hagar was to return with a different attitude, a humble one. She did so and Ishmael was born. Abram was 86 yrs. old.

        Chapter 17, 13 years later, Jehovah God appears to Abram and his named is changed to Abraham. Vss.9-14 speaks on circumcision, the covenant of the flesh for Abraham and all generations afterward. Not to be done so meant death! Vss.15-21, Abraham is told of Sarai's change of name to Sarah and that she would bear the son; the promised 'seed', a year from that day.

        Chapter 18, Jehovah's angels come to the area; abraham is aware and asks to show hospitality. They agree. Vss.6-15 states the point of Sarah's disbelief in her having children, at such an advanced age. v.11 says she had stopped her menstrual cycle.

        Now in chapter 21 , Sarah becomes pregnant and right on time, gives birth to Isaac. Now Abraham has 2 sons and Sarah notices how Ishmael teases and plays rough with Isaac, he being 14 years his senior. Sarah wants Hagar and Ishmael sent away. Abraham does not agree, but is advised by God to 'listen' to Sarah (v.12), because there is a promise awaiting Ishmael.

        Go back to verse 12, the seed, the promise Jehovah made to Abraham about a nation like the stars in the heavens(Gen. 15:4,5) was to come through Isaac, Abraham's son by his wife Sarah. Passing the test, Abraham's faith was not misplaced. Jehovah did provide the ram. Abraham reckoning "that God was able to raise him up even from the dead," did "in an illustrative way" receive Isaac back from the dead.-Heb.11:17-19.

          Reply#3 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:23 PM EDT
          frenchjr56

          This dramatic episode proved the faith and obedience not only of Abraham but also of his son Isaac. Jewish tradition, recorded by Josephus, says that Isaac was 25 years old at the time. At any rate, he was old enough and strong enough to carry a considerable quantity of wood up a mountain. So, he could have resisted his 125-year-old father when the time came to bind him if he had chosen to be rebellious against Jehovah's commandments. [JEWISH ANTIQUITIES, I,227{xiii,2}] Instead, Isaac submissively let his father proceed to offer him as a sacrifice in harmony with God's will. For this demonstration of Abraham's faith, Jehovah then repeated and ENLARGED upon his covenant with Abraham, which covenant was transferred by God to Isaac after the death of Abraham.*

          THE PROMISES WERE NOT THE SAME: CHAP.15:5-7,Was the promise of countless offspring and the land which is also promised.

          CHAP.17:1-8,The same promise of a crowd of nations, kings will come out and speaks of giving his 'seed' the alien residences and the entire land of Canaan.

          CHAP. 22,The promise is ENLARGED,V.8 "All nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice."

            Reply#4 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:43 PM EDT
            King Dave

            This is sad. You have found a reason to justify human sacrifice. Of someones own child no-less.

            If I thought a god was talking to me, and demanded I gut my own child, I would say, "Go to Hell" and I'm not doing it, threaten me, well, Bring it on!"

            Could you?

            • 2 votes
            #4.1 - Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:23 PM EDT
            katrix

            Any decent father would do the same, King Dave. You'd die to protect your children - you wouldn't murder them to satisfy some egotistical being's capricious whims. How anyone could worship something so evil is beyond me.

              #4.2 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:53 AM EDT
              Reply
              frenchjr56

              king david and katrix both of you forget one glaring point, prior to this event i was childless, this God told me i would have a child by my aging wife who was past child-bearing years. on time my wife gave birth to this son, promised to me by God. now God ask of me to show my faith, by offering him as a sacrifice? why not? God blessed me with him, he rightfully belongs to God not me. yes, i would die to protect my child but under the circumstances that Abraham was in my thoughts would be very different. reading your comments they are selfish, and after begging for a child from the Most High God how could i turn down His request? what about His act of sacrifice for us? he could have been as selfish and kept his son in heaven with him, not letting him go through the abuse and fiendish death for us. he could say the hell with mankind and let us continue until we truly do exterminate ourselves from off the face of this planet. but that is not what happen, God was not and is not that unloving or selfish. maybe before it is over you can come to know the truth about God. not the false teachings of religion nor the propaganda of hearsay and rumor, but the truth; for yourself. God is love and so is his son Jesus Christ. and just like Abraham and Isaac God gave his son for a sacrifice and Jesus willingly accepted his role as a sheep, to shed his blood. and if God allowed Abraham to continue through with the act he would have restored life to Isaac just as he did Jesus. as true christians we are the better for it.

                Reply#5 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:43 AM EDT
                katrix

                The runon sentences don't help us understand what you're trying to say, french.

                Try to address specific issues instead of rambling. The god of the bible is has committed untold atrocities that you seem to support. Who gives a crap about sacrifice anyway? What god worthy of our worship would demand human sacrifice? That's adopted from earlier religions. Any deity who wants that is evil.

                And if I read your ramblings correctly .. someone begging for a child was answered by god while countless people who were raped and murdered were ignored? You worship that?

                • 2 votes
                #5.1 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:18 PM EDT
                King Dave

                frenchjr56

                all morality and ethics are based on personal responsibility. Not if you slaughter the right person, or ask the right god for forgiveness. Both examples you gave happen to a human sacrifice. That is Morality?

                Your comments are sad, as if you would have extreme difficulty functioning without convincing yourself to believe the truth claims of religion. If there is no god, have you not found anything in life worth the experience?

                • 2 votes
                #5.2 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:31 PM EDT
                Reply
                frenchjr56

                You are right katrix, I am sorry. this technology is not for me. I am just a country man older and not quite up to using the computer in conveying what I want to say. please, forgive.

                Samuel's mother prayed incessantly for a child, and when her prayer was answered she dedicated him to Jehovah's service. You are short-sighted if all you see is evil intent, rape and murder was not condoned by Jehovah God nor did he commit these acts or arbitrate his leaders to commit such acts in his name.

                Why did Christ die? for his health? Jesus Christ paid the "cover" price for our sins, just as the Mosaic Law would have asked for a certain animal to be sacrificed for a certain sin offering. The blood or life Jesus Christ was given "once for all times", covering all our sins; giving us a chance to redeem ourselves to a better way which would lead to everlasting life. Illustrate; Jesus paid the cover charge for repentant mankind to enter into a righteous relationship with God. Animal blood could not effectively cover the debt we were in. What Adam lost needed a corresponding sacrifice, a perfect life to make this right. With Abraham's example and Jehovah's giving his 'only-begotten Son', we are through the 'door' onto the 'path that is cramped and leading off into life and few are the ones finding it.' SELAH!!!

                  Reply#6 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:50 AM EDT
                  Leave a Comment:
                  You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                  You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                  (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                  Newsvine Privacy Statement
                  As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                  FUN STUFF:
                  • Leaderboard |
                  • E-Mail Alerts |
                  • Top of the Vine |
                  • Newsvine Live |
                  • Newsvine Archives |
                  • The Greenhouse |
                  COMPANY STUFF:
                  • Code of Honor |
                  • Company Info |
                  • Contact Us |
                  • Jobs |
                  • User Agreement |
                  • Privacy Policy |
                  • About our ads
                  LEGAL STUFF:
                  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com