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KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
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Citizen Enemies: Those who protest the killing of American Citizen & 'Religious Fanatic' Anwar al-Awlaki have to say what they would have done instead ~ By Christopher Hitchens

Mon Oct 3, 2011 7:37 PM EDT
world-news, islam
By King Dave
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Citizen Enemies: Anwar al-Awlaki granted  religious permission to shoot at will.

By Christopher Hitchens

Posted Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at 1:49 PM ET

Probably because it mainly provides the kind of short-term cinematic satisfaction that characterizes the Hellfire terminus, the flashy ending of al-Qaida’s main media star has only led to the reopening of some pressing questions about the nature of the jihadi menace. It has also forced us to confront the idea of words as weapons, and the relationship between ideas and actions, in a world of conscienceless criminal violence that operates without employing any code or precedent of its own.

Anwar al-Awlaki

To phrase the essence of the problem succinctly, you are perhaps more likely, as a reader of this column, to be blown up at work or play, or on the way to work or play, by a “homegrown” or “lone-wolf” or “self-starter” fanatic using whatever explosive or incendiary tools may lie to hand, than you are to die at the hands of al-Qaida or the Shabab or any of their shifting surrogates. In the same way, it is at least as likely that a local operative will emerge from the American suburbs to commit one random and unpredictable act as it is that—as sometimes has happened—a fanatic will leave our shores and take himself to Somalia or Yemen or Afghanistan. And so we have the figures of Maj. Nidal Hasan, unsheathing his weapon at Fort Hood to yell “God Is Great!” or Faisal Shahzad rigging his SUV to explode in Times Square or, at one more remove, Farouk Abdulmutallab stuffing his underwear with combustibles and (rather too easily, given his record) boarding a flight to Detroit.

It doesn’t seem strictly accurate to use the “lone wolf” designation in all these cases, because a potent influence on the loner can be a homegrown counselor or adviser, who speaks the vernacular and has also lived in “the belly of the beast.” In the recent past, Anwar al-Awlaki has been the classic and most successful instance. His evolving contact with Hasan, for example, seemingly walking him through all of the stages that lead up to the granting of religious permission to shoot at will, was quite systematic. There were times when Awlaki was working under our very noses, propagandizing in Virginia and elsewhere from the context of an existing mosque (and so far getting into the swing of things that he attracted FBI notice by transporting ladies of the night across state lines, which is how we might have come to know him).

But he had not himself, at that stage, fully pupated himself into a committed Salafi jihadist. So now we have the phenomenon of an American citizen, able to whisper directly into the ears of people living here, but until recently being able to do so from a geographical location where our laws cannot reach him. There is no precedent, however remote, for a legal and moral challenge of this kind, let alone for a political or military one.

Since this dilemma will be with us for some time, may I recommend a recent booklet that offers the most background to the emergence of this fascinating and frustrating enemy. Called As American as Apple Pie: How Anwar al Awlaki Became the Face of Western Jihad, it is published by the International Center for the Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence. (Its author, I should proudly make haste to add, is my son.) The booklet explores the tradition of English-speaking Salafi agitators working in the West, a tradition that is longer and more ramified than many people think, but I find myself more absorbed by the aspect represented by the late Samir Khan, a Pakistani-American who until he died in the same Hellfire attack was the editor of Awlaki’s glossy magazine Inspire. Some will remember this unique online publication for its jeering, upbeat reports on the extreme cheapness of the print-cartridge bombs that were loaded from Yemen onto planes bound for our shores (the manufacturer of these bullets may also have died in the same attack), or the upbeat cover story on how to make bombs on your own mama’s kitchen table. While other martyrdom tactics were being used on faraway battlefields, said Khan not long ago, and even while Osama Bin Laden was being removed from the chessboard, the idea of homegrown attacks on U.S. soil was moving “into fifth gear.”

In a rhetorical way, this mirrors Bin Laden’s obsessive distinction between operations against India, say, or Iraq, and spectacular assaults on “the far enemy” or the prestige and security of the United States. To his last days, he argued even with his own lieutenants for a renewal of the second type of warfare. But it also raises a much less grand image: that of the pathetic amateur and misfit who can commit perhaps one limited act of vicious spite against his neighbors or co-workers or even passers-by.

I think it is important to watch for symptoms of sheer degeneracy like this—picknose wannabe murderers lurking in their parents’ basement—because there is evidence that such things (like the use of small children to carry suicide bombs) arouse revulsion even among those who otherwise wish us ill. It also dramatically reduces the caliber of recruit. On the other hand, and too little remarked, such tactics do something that is worth the price of a good deal of high explosive. They annihilate trust and confidence. Do you really want, next to you at boot camp, a man who prostrates himself five times a day? Should one say anything about the man with the beard in the next seat? Is a mosque in town the next development you truly welcome in the spirit of “inclusiveness” and “diversity”?

Slow and sidelong cultural erosions of this kind can do incalculable harm. And they can also be horribly and cheaply self-replicating: Some people will “overreact” to a specter of Islamism however slight, and this will offend the man who is only trying to meet his prayer obligations, and then a whole machinery of supposed grievance and redress clanks into action. Meanwhile, those who orchestrate this little carnival of mayhem and social corrosion are able to do so from areas that are beyond our legal jurisdiction but within our military reach, and to taunt us while doing so.

As we engage with the horrible idea that our government claims the right to add its own citizens to a death list that is compiled by methods and standards unknown, we must concede that no government on earth faces such a temptation to invoke what I suppose we could call a doctrine of pre-emptive self-defense. Those who share my alarm at the prospect of this, and of the ways in which it could be abused, are under a heavy obligation to say what they would do instead.

From Slate: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/10/anwar_al_awlaki_when_is_it_acceptable_to_kill_a_u_s_citizen_susp.single.html

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  • Public Discussion (80)
King Dave

Those who protest the killing of Religious Fanatic Anwar al-Awlaki have to say what they would have done instead?

I am glad Anwar al-Awlaki is dead. Religious lunatics like Awlaki will not stop instigating murder of innocents until they themselves are eliminated. There is no moral equivalence between a mass murderer and civil society that put a permanent end to al-Awlaki's reign of terror.

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 7:51 PM EDT
King Dave

.. One more small detail..That makes this article awesome...

Even though Hitchens supported, defending secularism, women's rights and equality in Iraq.. He is against the death penalty, world wide..He and others with these deep convictions should be easily able to offer other feasible alternaives to the U.S. actions taken wiyh al Awlaki in Yeman.

But he can not.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 11:24 PM EDT
buttzie

Those who protest the killing of Religious Fanatic Anwar al-Awlaki have to say what they would have done instead?

Kick him in the balls really,really hard...multiple times. Then let every victim and family member harmed from his actions to do the same.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:29 AM EDT
Jason Burnham

I would have given the evidence to the Supreme Court and have the Supreme Court Judges rule on whether the Death Penalty was appropriate. The date of when this "trial" would end would be placed in every Newspaper in the world with the terms that he had till this date to appear at the Supreme Court to defend himself. To me this would have maintained the Checks and Balances that our Government relies upon and kept within the Constitutional mandate of a Fair Trial.

As it stands he died in a convoy when a different Al-Qaida leader was targeted. His bad. Wrong place at the wrong time. He shouldn't of become a Terrorist.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 4:41 AM EDT
a1623AlgonquinmutTDeleted
Chris-382117

a1623AlgonquinmutT

The moment, the nanosecond that this a$$#ole took up rhetoric and arms (and encouraged others to do so as well) against the United States to kill innocents in the name of a religion, ANY religion, he CEASED to be an American citizen by his own mind, words and actions and became a criminal and an ENEMY to the USA.

No Sir, I'll disagree with you here. It requires a court of law, the Congress, or both to remove the 5th Amendment Right from a Citizen of this country. That was NOT done by either the Obama or Bush administrations and, because of the way he was assassinated you should be in fear of your life too.

I want he and all of his ilk to be removed from this earth in the most painful way possible since I personally knew people that died in the 9/11 attack, but I want it done by the numbers. Perhaps, prior to the authorization of strikes on people like this, they can be tried on the charges of supporting terrorism in absensia and convicted (it wouldn't be that hard). Then, congress can pass a special bill to strip these people of their citizenship because of their association with and work toward terrorist acts against the US and fellow citizens. Do it in a similar way as was outlined by Edward Everett Hale in his classic short story "The Man Without a Country." Strip them of their citizenship and make them Persona non garta; a truly Men without a Country. Then, whatever is done to them is completely acceptable under our laws because they is truly "not any of ours." Congress, after all, has the power to bestow citizenship. If they can bestow it, they should also be able to take it away; problem solved!

I would have been willing to personally build the fire over which to have him slowly roasted alive on a spit. I would have been willing to pay a lot of good money for Box Seats to watch he and his friends be Drawn, Hanged, and Quartered and cheered for the disenbowler all the way. But I want it to happen only if it is done by the letter of the law. We can't just pick and choose which citizen we give protection of the constitution to without jeopardizing those same protections for us all.

I do not defend him, I am defending the system that protects both you and me from the excesses of an overzealous government. That system only works to protect us if it protects all of us. You can't pick and choose who gets the protection and who does not. We did that once some 70 years ago with Japanese Americans and internment camps. We have done the same over the years with American Indians. Do you want that to be the norm and you become the one that is denied the process one day because someone in power doesn't like your attitude? What do you think would be happening to the Occupy Wall Street folks right now if Dick Chaney, Donald Rumsfeld, or Rush Lindbaugh were in charge and had the power to order Drone strikes against those they felt were wrong? That sword you swing cuts both ways.

I served with the 3rd Marine in Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces of Vietnam From 68 through 69. One morning outside of Cam Thanh, I saw some ARVN Soldiers drag two guys that they suspected of being Charlie Sympathizers out into the road, put a .45 to their heads and put an end the issue. At the time as an 18 year old Marine, my thought was "who gives a simple Crap?" because I thought they might have helped get some of my brother Marines hurt or killed. I've had almost 45 years to rethink the happenings of that day and come to the conclusion that if we do as they do, we are no better than they are. That is the difference between "us" and "them" isn't it?

It pains me to have to give this miserable bastard the protection of our laws, but if we don't, we take those protections from everyone. It can happen very easily; just ask Amanda Knox about a 36 hour strait grilling by police until she confessed. There are a lot of people here that would , after an interrogation like that would confess to being the one that both crucified Christ and Framed Roger Rabbit. But, when you start to pick and choose who you protect, for whatever reason, you start down the slippery slope toward tyranny. In the play A Man for All Seasons, Sir Thomas More argues with his future son-in-law, William Roper, about just that concept. The exchange goes:

Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'roundon you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?

Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake, not for his!

People might want to rethink what could happen by allowing a clear cut logging company to go after that thick stand of planted laws that we have. Taking away from one takes away from all.

  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 7:35 AM EDT
Ms CYPRAH

Their hypocritic stance against this killing is amazing.

I will tell you what they would have done if they and their family felt threatened by this man: They would have killed him quickly too! The fact that he is American makes his actions and intentions against fellow Americans all the more incorrigible. He deserves no sympathy whatever.

However, with the other guy, Samir Khan, I am undecided about him because, from what I gather, he was mainly running a newspaper. So my main question is: when did America enter the business of silencing free speech?

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 9:50 AM EDT
krishna-167929

when did America enter the business of silencing free speech?

There is a fairly widely held assumption, especially amongst many foreigners, that the right to 'free speech" is absolute under American Law. But in fact it is not.

Advocating violence is not protected by the First Amendment. There have been numerous Supreme Court rulings on the issue, so over the years is become more and more clear. (The right to free speech does not include the right to falsely yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, as doing this poses a "clear and present danger"...).

  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:05 AM EDT
Ms CYPRAH

Interesting clarification, Krishna. Thank you.

  • 1 vote
#1.8 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
Pacific Northwest Blogger

There is a fairly widely held assumption, especially amongst many foreigners, that the right to 'free speech" is absolute under American Law. But in fact it is not.

There's also hate speech which is illegal, lying to authorities which is illegal, cursing at persons can be considered assault, you can be arrested at any airport in the country for the speech used to a transportation security agent.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression have limitations to protect society as a whole. Context is everything. If what you say is intended to promote/incite harm you're breaking the law.

    #1.9 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 1:34 PM EDT
    Chris-382117

    Ms CYPRA,

    Their hypocritic stance against this killing is amazing.

    If you had read my comment, you would have found that I have absolutely no problem with killing the bastard and all of his friends. I have a problem with doing it without due process of law. All either the Bush or Obama administration had to do was to try him in absencia, convict him of aiding and abetting terorism, and then have congress pass a special bill that would allow his citizenship to be revoked because of his conviction. That would be an easy way to solve the proble. by revoking his citizenship, he would have no protection under the 5th amendment and we could do pretty much anything to him without a problem.

    By ordering his execution, no matter how much the SOB deserved to die, we have opened pandora's box because we have set a precident that an American can be executed whenever the government wishes, without due process of law. Will that give Rick Perry the right and ability to run the Texas Death Chamber 24/7 until the 360 or so on his death row are all dispatched? That is what can happen if this precident is allowed to stand.

    • 1 vote
    #1.10 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 1:37 PM EDT
    Sally

    King Dave, this would be more appropriate as a seed.

    • 5 votes
    #1.11 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 1:48 PM EDT
    King Dave

    Sally;

    Pardon me for my Newsvine transgressions, it will not happen again. Thanks for the correspondence and restoring original to a seed. Thus saving the day and all the great to just so-so comments.... lol

    In tring to fix this myself, I think you did it for me... Thanks..

    • 1 vote
    #1.12 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 8:22 PM EDT
    rareety

    Jason...#1.3

    I would have given the evidence to the Supreme Court and have the Supreme Court Judges rule on whether the Death Penalty was appropriate. The date of when this "trial" would end would be placed in every Newspaper in the world with the terms that he had till this date to appear at the Supreme Court to defend himself. To me this would have maintained the Checks and Balances that our Government relies upon and kept within the Constitutional mandate of a Fair Trial

    I agree. Not sure the Supreme Court is the appropriate venue, but any Federal Court would due.

    He could have easily been convicted, in absentia, of Treason, Conspiracy to Commit Murder, and providing material support to a terrorist organization. At the very least, treason is punishable by death. Once convicted, ordering his death would be in accordance with the Constitution's requirement for due process.

    As it stands, the U.S. Government has given Constitutional Rights to non-U.S Citizens for acts committed outside of the U.S. and it's territories, while depriving a U.S. Citizen of the same. To deny that KSM should be tried by a Military Tribunal for his (very similar) acts as a "Unlawful Combatant", and should instead be tried in a U.S. Court with full Constitutional protections; while killing Al Awlaki under the authority granted by Congress for Military actions against 9/11 Terrorists is AT BEST hypocritical.

    Which is it? Are they Criminals or Combatants? Obama and Holder don't know whether to wind their ass or scratch their watch, but they need to pick one and stick with it.

    Either way, the Terrorist should be eliminated. I'm glad that Al Awlaki was on the receiving end of a Hellfire Missile.

      #1.13 - Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:57 PM EDT
      Reply
      Jacob-226Deleted
      Fla Pat

      Anwar al-Awlaki's father, Nasser, with the help of the ACLU, sued President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and CIA Director Leon Panetta a year ago, when it became clear that the U.S. was targeting the younger al-Awlaki. But U.S. District Judge John Bates threw the case out, ruling that federal courts were in no position to evaluate whether someone was a terrorist whose activities threatened national security and against whom the use of deadly force could be justified.

      "This court recognizes the somewhat unsettling nature of its conclusion -- that there are circumstances in which the executive's unilateral decision to kill a U.S. citizen overseas is 'constitutionally committed to the political branches' and judicially unreviewable," Bates said, quoting an earlier decision on a similar issue.

      http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/30/8063632-can-us-legally-kill-a-citizen-overseas-without-due-process

      There has been legal precedent to justify the action taken. We may not like it or agree with it but until congress passes a law that establishes clear process - it is at the discretion of the executive branch.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#3 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 8:44 PM EDT
      Mike-1499840

      This may qualify as, "pole vaulting over mouse turds," but how we did this appears to be suspect. First of all, there is no doubt that he was a bad guy. If we had killed him as part of a battle, then there is absolutely no issue as far as I am concerned. However, to specifically target him for assassination, then I firmly believe as an American citizen, he is entitled to some sort of due process.

      I am not necessarily saying that it needs to be a full blown trial. But I am saying that there should be some sort of review process, with evidence presented and finally, the President's signature on the order. It's not so much I am worried that the wrong guy was whacked. I am however worried about slippery slope. If at any time, we absolutely must assassinate a fellow American, even one so demonstrably evil, then there needs to be a stringent accountability trail and the Commander In Chief needs to own it.

      Regards,

      Mike

      • 5 votes
      Reply#4 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 8:50 PM EDT
      jpokergman

      Christopher Hutchins,

      I am so glad you asked that question.

      I would like to start right at the very beginning of this disgrace, that most people call a "War on Terror". Which to me is akin to Attempting to pick a minor skirmish with a "Flanking maneuver", somewhere in the distant space-time continuum.

      How exactly does an enemy fight a tactic?

      President Bush not being well endowed with brains could be forgiven this mishap .....Maybe! If he had not then Dragged us Kicking and screaming into a full blown Invasion of Iraq without asking Congress for the FULL authority to WAGE WAR. Then turning around and simply IDENTFYING al AQaeda as a Enemy of the State and again going Hat and hand and Asking Congress for the Authority to wage War against an identiafiable Enemy, we then could have in turn. Tasked the Joint Chiefs with the Mission to wage Toal war upon Al Qaeda, until they were either eliminated or until their unconditional surrender. So help me God.....etc.

      The most important thing about declared Wars is that, not only do they clearly defline the mission and the ultimate goal. They can only end in one of two outcomes if successful. The enemy is elimenated. Or they unconditionally surrender. Either way they actually end.

      Again I must stress this piont. Declared wars have endings.

      They do not Morph into Police States, that have vague unrelated Vain Glorius names..Like .."War on Terror".

      Let me illustrate the extent of the stupidity at which History will Judge Everyone who took ownership, and even partial ownership, of this ..."War on terror".

      One day someone in the future far more influential than myself, is going to wake up and have the following idea......Hey, what if I should go into a real scary movie....And just at the part when I get really terrified I try to turn around ....And do my part in the War on Terror....Aren't I great?...Hey where is Homeland security? Where do I get my medal?

      In War....An enemy is supposed to terrorise their enemy. That is what they do.

      If you really want to win...Identify your enemy.....In this case it was Al Qaeda. Not that hard to Identify. Learn everything you can about your enemy.......Then go To Congress and get the Full support of Both houses, and as General Sherman said......Prosecute "TOTAL WAR".

      If Bush was such a Strong "WAR-TIME PRESIDENT", as he used to brag about all the time. Why was he so scared of what a few Democrats might SAY? While Marines were being shot up on the Field of battle? You call that Bravery in the Face of fire?

      Is that called leadership? The Commander-in-Chief is afraid to ask Congress for a Vote? For a United House ina War against Al Qaeda? Are you kidding me? If that ain't a slam dunk win.....Then maybe we ought to dissolve the Department of Homeland Security....Raise Taxes......And Balance the Budget.

      Once War is declared, and legal, killing this turd would, not have mattered, he would have been a deserter, or a spy, or turncoat.

      Undeclared War's are the Bane of our Country.

      President Obama could go before Congress still and get them to declare War on Al Qaeda, even now and the right thing. He could say that " Due to advancements in Technology, and operational capabilities that we did not have Ten years ago, the U.S. is able to Identify its enemy Al Qaeda, also known, as "The Base". I am asking Congress for the authority to Wage total War on Al Qaeda, and all its allies, plus its logistical, emotional, and any other support systems those allies may rely on.....etc."

      The spinsters can take it from there I am sure.

      Killing and stripping American Civillians of their rights, no matter how scared you may get....Is not the answer. A Nation gets the leader it deserves......I didn't realise we laid an egg.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#5 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 8:54 PM EDT
      Mike-1499840

      poker,

      I was a Bush supporter in most things. However, I find myself in agreement with most of your post. Well thought out and written. Voted up.

      Regards,

      Mike

      • 2 votes
      #5.1 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 8:58 PM EDT
      King Dave

      jpokergman

      Is not protecting America's citizens and interests at home and abroad worth anthing to you? Your comment is perfectly rationalized from the comfort and protection of the Secular United States of America.

      This Holy War will last as long as their are civilized humans willing to defend against it.

      Not all of us are willing to surrender jpokergman

      Here~ watch Christopher "Hutchens" destroy your arguments in less than 5 minutes

      http://youtu.be/axHR8AOxxkc

      Christopher Hitchens destroys leftist masochist in speech. You will love this one...

      • 3 votes
      #5.2 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:16 PM EDT
      jpokergman

      I don't talk about surrender. On the Contrary. I Propose TOTAL WAR.

      Which means taking The Full might of these UNITED STATES of AMERICA to a defined enemy and permanently end their ability to wage War upon us.......Legally. By whatever Means The Joint Chiefs deam necessary to achieve this goal.

      Read all of what I wrote. Carefully. Please.

      • 2 votes
      #5.3 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:13 PM EDT
      jpokergman

      King Dave,

      I hate to break this to you. If there is any subject I know well....Its War.

        #5.4 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:39 PM EDT
        Reply
        digcreation

        when you leave the country, join the enemy, and start making recruiting videos for the enemy which encourage violence against America... are you still a citizen? does treason not invalidate your citizenship? if not, what does?

        and the answer to the above should remain true regardless of the current or past admins policies.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#6 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:07 PM EDT
        Mike-1499840

        when you leave the country, join the enemy, and start making recruiting videos for the enemy which encourage violence against America... are you still a citizen? does treason not invalidate your citizenship?

        Such actions are treasonous. However, there must still be due process to determine treason and if necessary deprive someone of their citizenship. There are even methods to do so in a "classified" environment. But such actions should be few and far between and in each case should require a Presidential signature/finding. When ordinary due process is circumvented, then extra effort must be taken to affix responsibility in writing. As Truman said, "The buck stops here."

        Regards,

        Mike

        • 2 votes
        #7 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:16 PM EDT
        King Dave

        However, there must still be due process to determine treason and if necessary deprive someone of their citizenship.

        How many Americans are we willing to let die by al Awlaki's henchmen in order to make this point? He is the inspiration to the Ft. Hood mass murderer and several of the 9/11 hijackers. That is not alleged. Al Awlaki boasts of these "Heroic" operations.

        • 1 vote
        #7.1 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:27 PM EDT
        digcreation

        and how do you know it didn't happen in a classified setting?

        its not like the evidence wasn't all over the internet.

        • 1 vote
        #7.2 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:37 PM EDT
        Mike-1499840

        King Dave,

        Did you read my post? I didn't say due process necessarily involved a normal trial. I just said there needed to be one...and if it was outside the norm, then the President should have to sign each and every death warrant for accountability. I don't see how that would add to the American death toll.

        Digi,

        I don't know, one way or the other. If it happened as you said, then good on Obama.

        Regards,

        Mike

        • 3 votes
        #7.3 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:42 PM EDT
        Ron Christman

        Mike, there was a process, maybe not "due process" but a process followed. Below is a cut and paste from one source about how this was done:

        In January 2010, White House lawyers considered the legality of attempting to kill al-Awlaki, given his U.S. citizenship. Opportunities to do so "may have been missed" because of legal questions surrounding such an attack. But on February 4, 2010, New York Daily News reported that al-Awlaki was "now on a targeting list signed off on by the Obama administration".

        On April 6, The New York Times also reported that President Obama had authorized the targeted killing of al-Awlaki. The CIA and the U.S. military both maintain lists of terrorists linked to al-Qaeda and its affiliates who are approved for capture or killing. Because he is a U.S. citizen, his inclusion on those lists was approved by the National Security Council. U.S. officials said it is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing. The New York Times reported that international law allows the use of lethal force against people who pose an imminent threat to a country, and U.S. officials said that was the standard used in adding names to the target list. In addition, Congress approved the use of military force against al-Qaeda after 9/11. People on the target list are considered military enemies of the U.S., and therefore not subject to a ban on political assassinations approved by former President Gerald Ford.

        This was obviously known because al-Awlaki's father sued last year to have him taken off the 'kill list' and a judge ruled it was legal as noted in #3 above.

        • 2 votes
        #7.4 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:12 PM EDT
        King Dave

        I half liked your comment Mike.

        There is nothing moral, Holy or worth defending about these psychopathic lunatics who preach hiding bombs in our children's playgrounds. Even if he is a fellow American, I hate him..

        But as for due process I agree. He should be given equal consideration as he gave his victims. So we should glue his pieces back together and put his rotting corpse on trial. Just like Pope Pope Formosus.

        Pope Formosus (c. 816 – 896) was Pope of the Catholic Church from 891 to 896. His brief reign as Pope was troubled, and his remains were exhumed and put on trial in the notorious Cadaver Synod.

        • 1 vote
        #7.5 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:17 PM EDT
        Mike-1499840

        Ron,

        President Obama had authorized the targeted killing of al-Awlaki.

        That is the critical part. Is there responsibility fixed? If POTUS signed off on a Presidential Finding or Warrant, that gives us the citizenry a chain of accountability.

        King Dave,

        On the first part...I agree.

        On your last part...All I can say is ROFL....so hard I spilled my coffee.

        OK...last second edit...did he take the stand in his own defense?

        Regards,

        Mike

        • 3 votes
        #7.6 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:36 PM EDT
        CommisarCain

        But as for due process I agree. He should be given equal consideration as he gave his victims. So we should glue his pieces back together and put his rotting corpse on trial. Just like Pope Pope Formosus.

        That's not the whole story. Formosus had screwed up so badly they put his corpse on trial twice.

          #7.7 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 2:03 AM EDT
          Freewill

          Ron,

          More on this issue from a popular political columnist and previously constitutional law and civil rights litigator Glenn Greenwald:

          http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07/assassinations

          http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/04/assassinations

          • 3 votes
          #7.8 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 2:52 AM EDT
          Ron Christman

          Thanks Freewill, I read Greenwald some. As I stated above, there was a process and it seems that, given the circumstances, it was probably the best process we could use. The administration used the argument that an American citizen left the country and then espoused teasonous acts against Americans and there seems to be adequate evidence to support that argument. . . but how do we bring these types back to the states to stand trial?

          I happen to trust the current administration on this, not sure I would have trusted the last one. So how do we do protect our country from the likes of al-Awlaki within our Constitutional system? I think we're still grappling with that and will for some time. . . as long as we're dealing with the current brand of terrorism.

            #7.9 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 9:34 AM EDT
            Freewill

            I happen to trust the current administration on this, not sure I would have trusted the last one.

            Interesting. Insofar as THIS issue is concerned, can you explain why you feel this way?

            • 3 votes
            #7.10 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:14 PM EDT
            Ron Christman

            The last administration's record on fighting the war on terror speaks for itself. Several of the things that lead me to believe that they would not be trustworthy were:

            1. Lied to divert the war on terror to Iraq.

            2. Set up Guantanamo to get around holding prisoners outside of the Geneva Convention.

            3. Shut down the effort to get Osama bin Laden because it wasn't politically convenient to 'not find him' while waging a war that did nothing to address terrorism.

            4. Used methods that were far more 'invasive' and damaging to local non-combatants.

            5. Failed to vette information sources and/or ignored data and information if the information did not fit their pre-formed scenario.

            I'm sure we could build an even stronger case against the last administration if we took a few minutes.

              #7.11 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 7:46 AM EDT
              Freewill

              Ah, but with respect to THIS topic, the targeting and killing of an American citizen Anwar al-Awlaki, why would you trust an administration that demanded executive power to order the assassination of an American citizen without due process, over the previous administration that did not?

              As Greenwald explains:

              Here we are, almost four years later with a new party in power, and the President’s top intelligence official announces — without any real controversy — that the President claims the power to assassinate American citizens with no charges, no trials, no judicial oversight of any kind. The claimed power isn’t “inherent” — it’s based on alleged Congressional approval — but it’s safeguard-free and due-process-free just the same. As Gore asked of less severe policies in 2006, if the President can do that, “then what can’t he do?”

              • 2 votes
              #7.12 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 12:43 PM EDT
              krishna-167929

              Lied to divert the war on terror to Iraq.

              Yup-- and let's not forget-- the lies such as these-- about Saddam having WMDs-- were particularly outrageous!

              • 3 votes
              #7.13 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:59 PM EDT
              King Dave

              and let's not forget-- the lies such as these-- about Saddam having WMDs-- were particularly outrageous!

              Lies?

              http://youtu.be/hfJ9NtnZEws

              The Halabja poison gas attack (Kurdish: Kîmyabarana Helebce), also known as Halabja massacre or Bloody Friday,[1] was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War, when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces in the Kurdish town of Halabja in Iraqi Kurdistan.

              Why would anyone not trust the word of Saddam Hussein? ~ sarc

              • 1 vote
              #7.14 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT
              krishna-167929

              and let's not forget-- the lies such as these-- about Saddam having WMDs-- were particularly outrageous!

              Lies?

              http://youtu.be/hfJ9NtnZEws

              The Halabja poison gas attack (Kurdish: Kîmyabarana Helebce), also known as Halabja massacre or Bloody Friday,[1] was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War, when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces in the Kurdish town of Halabja in Iraqi Kurdistan.

              Why would anyone not trust the word of Saddam Hussein? ~ sarc

              Saddam actually did have WMDs after all???

              • 2 votes
              #7.15 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 4:50 PM EDT
              Reply
              Zydor

              Hitchens gave a good rebuttal in my view in the link The Seeder Posted above.

              Technical legal issues .... well maybe ... but a powerful rebuttal. Those not listened to it, when you do so - don't get confused. The speaker you will here straight away is posing a question (believe it or not). Listen for 2 mins or so as the questioner drones on, its classic old time academia theoretical anti-imperialist learnt out of an academic text book with no real world flavour to it.

              .... then Hitchens launches.

              http://youtube/axHR8AOxxkc

              • 3 votes
              Reply#8 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:50 PM EDT
              Zydor

              Dang .... apologies bad link my fault ... use this:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axHR8AOxxkc&feature=youtu.be

              • 2 votes
              #8.1 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 10:53 PM EDT
              Reply
              ramikay

              I was so glad they also got rid of extremist US racist zionist dual Israeli citizen Meir Kahane even if US government would have done it directly.

              I would also propose that dual Israel citizen Jonathan Pollard be given death sentence without further trial for putting the security of US in jeopardy by sharing sensitive US security information with Israel that was passed on to our enemies of cold war the Soviet Union for getting Soviets to allow mass migrations of Jews to Israel from ex soviet republics and Russia.

              I also hail the death sentence to Jewish communist Rosenbergs who passed on the US secrets to Soviets and Israelis on nuclear weapons putting US in security jeopardy and extending the cold war that led to death of 1000's of Americans in Vietnam and Koreas.

              • 5 votes
              Reply#9 - Mon Oct 3, 2011 11:45 PM EDT
              King Dave

              Meir Kahane was shot to death by El Sayyid Nosair, an Egyptian-born American citizen who was initially charged and acquitted of the murder. Nosair was later convicted of the murder in United States district court incident to the trial for his involvement in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing..

              This is who you are proud of? But you have bolstered a case inadvertently, for religious thinking being a blight on free civil society, and equatable with racism.

              • 2 votes
              #9.1 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:14 AM EDT
              ramikay

              Good somebody got rid of that racist hatemonger Kahane who wanted to kill 1000's of people in Israel who were not jews and was a source of murder for many already during his lifetime.

              • 5 votes
              #9.2 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:22 AM EDT
              CommisarCain

              I would also propose that dual Israel citizen Jonathan Pollard be given death sentence without further trial for putting the security of US in jeopardy by sharing sensitive US security information with Israel that was passed on to our enemies of cold war the Soviet Union for getting Soviets to allow mass migrations of Jews to Israel from ex soviet republics and Russia.

              Pollard is in our custody, which means we can't kill him. US policy is to accept surrenders. Now, had he shot at the FBI agents who came for him, I imagine we would not be having this discussion.

              • 1 vote
              #9.3 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 12:28 AM EDT
              Reply
              Dean Moriarty

              We started the nuclear arms race by dropping bombs on innocent women and children now many have nuclear weapons to defend against us.
              We started killing people with drones soon every country will acquire drones to defend against us.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#10 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 3:38 AM EDT
              krishna-167929

              now many have nuclear weapons to defend against us.

              Do you really believe that?

              Ot did you just forget to use the "sacasm" tag?

              India and Pakistan did not get nukes because they were afraid the U.S. might attack then! (Do you have even an inkling of who they were afraid of?).

              And-- Israel-- do you really think they got nukes to defend against the U.S. attacking them?

              France? The U,K,?

              If you really do believe what you just stated and it is not, in fact, sarcasm on pur part (or perhaps a feeble attempt at humour?)-- then your knowlege of world affairs is indeed a bit limited-- to say the least....

              • 3 votes
              #10.1 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 7:59 AM EDT
              Zydor

              We started the nuclear arms race by dropping bombs on innocent women and children now many have nuclear weapons to defend against us.
              We started killing people with drones soon every country will acquire drones to defend against us.

              Good grief ... Ron Paul needs to pray that kind of ignorance does not make it into the open tied to his campaign - he'd been in far worse shape than he is already.

              Any chance of any non invective facts to back those silly assertions, or are we to assume they are fixed inside a pre-high school debating society? A hint ...... start by outlining the reasons why nukes were acquired by all Nations currently in possession of them , and then outline why those who are trying to get them have that ambition.

              I dont anticipate a reply, well not a factual one anyway, it will be pure invective if you have the courage to reply (which I doubt) .... but hope springs eternal.

                #10.2 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:52 AM EDT
                Grisham

                We started the nuclear arms race by dropping bombs on innocent women and children now many have nuclear weapons to defend against us.

                You do realize that Nazi Germany was within striking distance of developing a nuclear bomb, right?

                • 2 votes
                #10.3 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 8:02 PM EDT
                Reply
                gcxdeDeleted
                gcxdeDeleted
                jpokergman

                King Dave,

                It seems you still do not get the point of Total War. A unit of Seals is as capable of "Prosecuting" said War, as any other weapon in the Joint Chiefs arsenol.

                Total War, can only be successful however if and only if it has the will, and backing of the "UNITED STATES of AMERICA".

                I suggest that until you and like your handle implies.....your ilk decide that you are fine with living in either 1.) An Aristocracy and under the Authority of a KING .

                2.) A DicTatorship and under the Authority of a regime.

                Then I put it to in in no uncertain terms .......Killing of American Civilians is NOT moral. It is not Constitutional. And he deserved a trial by jury Before before we hung him.And I will gladly lay down my life to protect that FRACKING right!

                There are a whole lot more at the VA of me. Than there are of you.....)

                  Reply#13 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 1:09 PM EDT
                  King Dave

                  Then I put it to in in no uncertain terms .......Killing of American Civilians is NOT moral. It is not Constitutional. And he deserved a trial by jury Before before we hung him.

                  That's all fine and dandy if the U.S.A. could apprehend al-Alwaki before he incites more slaughter. Perhaps you should take up your grievance with Yemen. Yemen did not want a American born terrorist on their soil, killing others as well as fellow Muslims. The U.S. provided the means for al-Alwaki's death. We do this all over the world, I agree whit this policy, and this is one of the first times a President has admitted to it. Bravo President Obama. The President could have like his predecessors, hidden the truth. For example, the CIA is rumored to have fired the kill shot at Colombian drug lord and mass murderer, Pablo Escobar and given credit to FARC. The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. Whilst Escobar was not an American citizen, either was Manuel Antonio Noriega. This is how we have to prosecute international terrorists. Killing Pablo was in humanity's best interest. Surly you would not argue against that.

                  This sounds bad, but the ends truly justify the means.....

                  • 1 vote
                  #13.1 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 8:11 PM EDT
                  jpokergman

                  Pablo Escobar was not an American Citizen. I should have been more clear.

                  You seem like a decent man. Don't you believe in Congress declaring War? Don't you see that there are those that DON"T want a Defined War just so they can whip up an apethetic public, and get them to go along with their own prejudices?

                  I believe Hichens would like to see an actual War on all of Islam. He seems to think that the entire Religion is aggressive. And that is where I draw the line.

                    #13.2 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 8:33 PM EDT
                    King Dave

                    You seem like a decent man.

                    Please don't insult me.

                    Don't you see that there are those that DON"T want a Defined War just so they can whip up an apathetic public, and get them to go along with their own prejudices?

                    Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare and refers to conflicts in which a small group of combatants including, but not limited to, armed civilians (or "irregulars") use military tactics, such as ambushes, sabotage, raids, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target, and withdraw almost immediately.

                    This is what free society must defend against.

                    I'll ask you now. Do you agree with killing Bin Laden? Where Bin Laden was born doesn't seem to be the issue, but what he did, matters.

                    • 1 vote
                    #13.3 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 9:23 PM EDT
                    jpokergman

                    I agreed with killing Bin Laden. Where he was born does matter, BECAUSE the guys who are doing the fighting are under ambiguous orders!

                    HOW do I spell this out?

                    Unless The chief Executive, is Briefing Both sides of the Congress, there is "Partisanship" in the ranks!

                    Did you Know that several Seals Were Court martialed for following directives handed down to them from V.P. Cheney's office?

                    Did you know about Operation Wide Reciever?

                    I wasn't being a wiseass when I made that observation about being a decent Man. There are so many with agenda's on these boards it isn't funny....!

                    When War is "Formal", it brings oversight. Power does corrupt, and over time, it corrupts in a hurry.

                    Did you also know that the GAO reported that the DOD lost 7 Billion Dollars in cold hard Cash in Iraq!

                    It is also in the notes in very small print at the N.Y. Fed website.

                    Now I ask you again. And BTW, have you noticed I have no problem with any RESULT. Just the process.

                    Are you against A Formal Declaration of War?

                      #13.4 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 10:24 PM EDT
                      jpokergman

                      I made an error. It should read, Courts Martial.

                        #13.5 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 10:31 PM EDT
                        King Dave

                        Are you against A Formal Declaration of War?

                        No. But fighting terrorism is not conventional and needs no formal declaration. I have not been sold on this idea, I happen to agree with it.

                        The great news is:

                        When it comes to religious ideology accompanied with terrorism, there is no lack of Brave young American women and men signing up on the side of resistance.

                        • 1 vote
                        #13.6 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:25 PM EDT
                        King Dave

                        In May 1996 the group World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders (WIFJAJC), sponsored by Osama bin Laden and later reformed as al-Qaeda, started forming a large base of operations in Afghanistan, where the Islamist extremist regime of the Taliban had seized power that same year.[3] In February 1998, Osama bin Laden signed a fatwa, as the head of al-Qaeda, declaring war on the West and Israel,[4][5] later in May of that same year al-Qaeda released a video declaring war on the United States and the West

                        • 1 vote
                        #13.7 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:27 PM EDT
                        jpokergman

                        Forgive me, but from my perspective, saying there is no "NEED" for our Country to declare War because its unconventional, is like a Cancer patient saying there is no "Need" for Chemotherapy, or Radiation Treatment, because I took two aspirin tablets and I am starting to feel better.

                        One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

                        When the U.S. actually Declares "War", The President must deal with the "Minority" side of Congress. This is the Difficult part of being Commander-in-Chief. This is the part where his "Feelings", may get bruised. Due to questions.

                        BTW, I respected your posts so much, I wrote my own article.

                        This is quite a dilemma for many Americans.

                          #13.8 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:48 PM EDT
                          King Dave

                          I respected your posts so much, I wrote my own article.

                          Why don't you link your article from here? But in any case I'll read it soon.

                          Who exactly do you want to declare war on? Foreign terrorist? Domestic terrorist? And how exactly will you determine who these individuals are in advance? If you can tell me that, perhaps you will share this intel with the U.S. Government.

                          • 1 vote
                          #13.9 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 12:22 AM EDT
                          jpokergman

                          Al Qaeda, also known as "The base". Its allies, and all who support them, in any way shape, and form. As soon as The President goes before Congress, and gets the Declaration passed, I assure you, I will give them EVERYTHING I have.

                          I doubt very much, that I will be welcomed with opened arms, handshakes and salutes.

                          Remember Douglas MacArthur? He believed in Declared Wars also.

                          The Intellectuals of Military Academia Cannot differentiate "Total War", and "Scale". They think guys like me, can only think in terms of pure extermination. Which is the furthest thing from the truth.

                          The first step is fairly easy. Study your enemy. Who are their heroes? Guys like Saladin. Yusuf, which is Joseph in Arabic. Even though he was Turkish, he was a Sunni. He became a Military leader, but really he wanted to be a religous kind of guy.....Sound familiar? The point I am making is that you can learn alot just in the names, if your smart, instead of a hater.

                          Anyway, I am getting tired. gotta call it a night. I will put you on my friends list.

                            #13.10 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:32 AM EDT
                            krishna-167929

                            I believe Hichens would like to see an actual War on all of Islam. He seems to think that the entire Religion is aggressive. And that is where I draw the line.

                            if I'm not mistaken, Hitchens is a devout Atheist-- he feels that all religion is foolishness!

                            • 2 votes
                            #13.11 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:54 AM EDT
                            jpokergman

                            King Dave,

                            Woke up with a thought, Ghandi inflicted "Total War", upon the British. Without firing a single shot from his perspective.

                            He was able to Unite both sides of a divided India in a common cause, and boot the British out.

                            That was Undeniable all out War. It was Unconventional. It was a smashing success. Without unity it would have failed!

                            And Yes! I am an American. Of Course I would help if asked. Unconditionally!

                              #13.12 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 4:39 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              chaos99972

                              I am against the death penalty.
                              I am not against the killing of enemies bent on harming the USA.
                              I would, however, prefer that rabid dogs like this one not be killed by my government. I would prefer to see them incarcerated forever, and paraded in public at regular intervals, so that all can see their slow physical and mental erosion, and be horrified by their fate.
                              I'll take his death, but I would rather have had this piece of excrement spend his life without further human contact, and have him spend it thinking about how he wasted what Allah gave him, by pursuing the murder of other people.
                              So much for me. But I would prefer he be alive, and suffering, than dead, and released from responsibility and consequence for what he did.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#14 - Tue Oct 4, 2011 8:27 PM EDT
                              krishna-167929

                              There's also hate speech which is illegal,

                              Link?

                              • 3 votes
                              #14.1 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:49 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              dsweaDeleted
                              Castor Bridge

                              It's really quite simple. If Bush did it, it was wrong and evil. Since Obama did it, it's the right thing to do. Comfirmation bias.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#16 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:54 PM EDT
                              Freewill

                              That's just it. The Bush Administration did NOT demand Executive Power to assassinate an American citizen without due process, only the Obama Administration did.

                              • 2 votes
                              #16.1 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:53 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              WeldDem

                              Treasonous bastard is dead, good enough for me, his words and actions established his guilt. Do you think we could have even been able to find twelve, tried and true peers by with to judge him? IMO No.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#17 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 4:10 PM EDT
                              psychodd1

                              I would put 2 center mass and 1 in the head ,took a leak on him and called it a day.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#18 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 8:25 PM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

                              Pretty clear.......

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#19 - Wed Oct 5, 2011 11:44 PM EDT
                              digcreation

                              except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;

                              yes it is

                              • 1 vote
                              #19.1 - Thu Oct 6, 2011 6:20 PM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              Perfect....now you need to read the exerpt you used at the comprehension level. "IN" the land or naval forces or the militia. You are aware there are two distinct levels to the justice system. One is for those of you not in uniform and the second is the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Thus the word "in" at the beginning of that statement. Are you saying the US citizen killed was part of the land or naval forces or the militia? The first sentence of the Amendment applies to him.

                              • 2 votes
                              #19.2 - Fri Oct 7, 2011 10:28 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              krishna-167929

                              Another Colonel: what is it, exactly, that you are trying to say-- that you feel that Obama is a war criminal?

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#20 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 12:33 AM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              Krish......I think something needed to be done after due process. I am uncomfortable with the government killing US citizens without due process.

                              • 2 votes
                              #20.1 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 12:59 AM EDT
                              King Dave

                              Another Colonel: Were you waiting for al-Awlaki to turn himself in? Al-Awlaki preached Islamic infiltrators to drive their cars into crowds of American children. Do you have no problem with other humans risking their lives to apprehend al-Awlaki for America's due process? If your answer is "If you want him, go get him." Then my answer is America's answer,"We did."

                              • 1 vote
                              #20.2 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:58 AM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              Dave...we did by ignoring the rights of a US citizen...it's as simple as that. If his rights mean nothing, then your rights mean nothing, as do mine. Should we have sent a team in....sure. Should we have allowed Yemen to whack him? Yup. I find it interesting that Americans are very quick to give up their rights, eswpecially when they are feeling internet tough.

                              I detect a bit of condescension on your part with this:

                              Do you have no problem with other humans risking their lives to apprehend al-Awlaki for America's due process?

                              Been there, done that.

                              • 3 votes
                              #20.3 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 12:38 PM EDT
                              King Dave

                              Do you have no problem with other humans risking their lives to apprehend al-Awlaki for America's due process?

                              Been there, done that.

                              That is not an answer, yes or no is.

                              eswpecially when they are feeling internet tough.

                              I can now tell, you are new to Newsvine. You have to be tough, or at least thick skined if you are going to debate on Newsvine. I assume you chose to be here, if not you can always hit the ignore author button. I like a challenge and never dodge a question put to me.

                              I understand the U.S. should not put put it's citizens to death without due process. I find it odd that many people's argument for this reason and against targeting an American fugitive inciting treason and mass murder is not a religious, philosophical, moral argument, not even a question of justice. But the main reason against targeting an admitted Jihadist (religious terrorist) is geographical argument. Where this mass murderer was born. Week argument.

                              • 1 vote
                              #20.4 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 7:12 PM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              So the fact that the Administration targets a US citizen for assassination does not bother you....got it. Guesds you need to step into the same line as BBaker for your nifty arm band.

                              • 1 vote
                              #20.5 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 7:47 PM EDT
                              King Dave

                              So the fact that the Administration targets a US citizen for assassination does not bother you

                              No. No more than if a police officer kills a rampaging murderous psychopathic shooter, slaughtering children, at a political rally in a shopping mall. I am glad al-Awlaki is dead. Am I clear now?

                              Guesds you need to step into the same line as BBaker for your nifty arm band.

                              I have no idea what that means?

                              Skip the petty insults. If you have and can make a point, take the last word.....

                              • 1 vote
                              #20.6 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:32 PM EDT
                              Another Colonel

                              I am not surprised you don't know what it means....it is indicative of the posts to express your opinions that you don't know what it means.

                              No. No more than if a police officer kills a rampaging murderous psychopathic shooter, slaughtering children, at a political rally in a shopping mall.

                              The police officer will first try to capture for trial...unlike the murder of a US citizen which you condone. Now...think about that arm band again.

                              • 1 vote
                              #20.7 - Sun Oct 9, 2011 9:34 PM EDT
                              Reply
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