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KING DAVE

King Dave "An atheist is something I am, not something I do" ~ Christopher Hitchens
Articles Posted: 77  Links Seeded: 292
Member Since: 2/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Poll: Religions of the World: Is co-existence possible? Is it desirable?

Tue Aug 9, 2011 11:34 PM EDT
religion, crime, islam, christianity, atheism
By King Dave

Live Poll

Religions of the World: Is co-existence possible?

View Results
  • 156057
    Yes
    25%
  • 156058
    No
    56%
  • 156059
    Other (explain)
    19%

VoteTotal Votes: 16

Live Poll

Religions of the World: Is co-existence desirable?

View Results
  • 156060
    Yes
    50%
  • 156061
    No
    21%
  • 156062
    Other (Explain)
    29%

VoteTotal Votes: 14

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This may not be a popular article, but it needs to be asked. Unfortunately, the Westboro Baptist Church, the Taliban, Warren Jeffs, the Bachmanns are all interpreting their Holy Books correctly. The moderates fail to  condemn the source of religious hatred. As not to upset this malevolent God? Where are our priorities?

Today we learned  the  cold blooded  murderers of apostates, non-Muslims or just the wrong kind of Muslims is approved by an entire population. These  killers are  not considered  criminals and are made heroes . Not in the  tribal area in Pakistan, but in Indonesia, a Nation of 280 million people.

Not sure yet?

MULTAN, Pakistan, — On April 14, two men entered Asma Firdous' home, cut off six of her fingers, slashed her arms and lips and then sliced off her nose. Before leaving the house, the men locked their 28-year-old victim inside.

Pakistan is the world's third-most dangerous country for women, after Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, based on a survey conducted by the Thomson Reuters Foundation.In its 2010 report, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan says almost 800 women were victims of "religious honor killings" -- murders aimed at preserving the honor of male relatives -- and 2,900 women reported raped -- almost eight a day.

Consequently the Democratic Republic of Congo is 90% Christian.

  • It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently—though isn't it amazing that you have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed?
  • Letter to a Christian Nation (2006), pages 11-12 Sam Harris
  • Religious moderates are, in large part, responsible for the religious conflict in our world, because their beliefs provide the context in which scriptural literalism and religious violence can never be adequately opposed. Sam Harris

Is co-existence possible or desirable?

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Groups: Atheism, Christopher Hitchens, Free Thinkers, Heated Debate
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  • Public Discussion (34)
Grisham

Possible? Yes, I'd say it's possible. As evidenced by the multicultural countries that allow freedom of religion.

Desirable? I guess that's a matter of perspective. To a moderately religious person I'd say it was desirable. To some hard core atheists it wouldn't be since they think religion is the root cause to most of the evils in the world.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:57 AM EDT
DonVito

Possible? No! Sorry, Grish, it will never happen. Should it be desireable? Absolutely!

Religion is the root cause of most of the world's evils. As well as many of societal and cultural dysfunctions. Do I have the universal solution? Yes!!! It will be resolved at the next asteriod impact.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:49 AM EDT
ndeepnow

No Man Is

    #1.2 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:31 AM EDT
    Grisham

    Possible? No! Sorry, Grish, it will never happen.

    Ha ha! I think it's possible but not bloody likely.

    Do I have the universal solution? Yes!!! It will be resolved at the next asteriod impact.

    Well as my daughter said to me once, I'm already half dead (was 30 at the time LOL) so I only gotta put up with it for another half.

    Religion is the root cause of most of the world's evils. As well as many of societal and cultural dysfunctions.

    I think people are the root cause and religion is a symptom. But I can certainly sympathize with your position. Fundamentalists drive me crazy as well.

    • 1 vote
    #1.3 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:53 AM EDT
    King Dave

    I want to thank everyone who voted and those brave enough to leave a comment. No one thinks religions can co-exist, but a couple of abstaining voters on: Is it desirable?

    No and No for me.

    No is not a call for violence, it is a vote against violence, bigotry, inequality, forcing opinions on others, rejection of science, rejection of free speech, and forcing women to live in bags. Blowing up buildings, myself, and others. I not righteous enough to tolerate these attacks on civility.

    "They ("Islamo-fascists") gave us no peace and we shouldn't give them any. We can't live on the same planet as them and I'm glad because I don't want to. I don't want to breathe the same air as these psychopaths and murderers and rapists and torturers and child abusers. It's them or me. I'm very happy about this because I know it will be them. It's a duty and a responsibility to defeat them. But it's also a pleasure. I don't regard it as a grim task at all." ~ Christopher Hitchens.

    • 2 votes
    #1.4 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
    Grisham

    King Dave,

    Out of curiosity, hypothetically speaking, if you were President of the World for a day, how would you (could you) legislate religion out? I mean, it's an impossibility, really.

      #1.5 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:24 AM EDT
      King Dave

      you were President of the World for a day, how would you (could you) legislate religion out?

      You mean King for a day.... I'm not arguing for banning religion, but for the cultivation and out-break of human secularism. Humanity needs a lot more of the latter, and a lot less of the former. I have noticed a growing movement of human secularism in the world. The arguments against religions are too strong. I'm very proud to be an atheist, and help with the movement. Human secularism is the path to peace.

      As always Grisham, I appreciate your contributions to my seeds, articles...and the cause/cure..

      • 2 votes
      #1.6 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:38 AM EDT
      Grisham

      Everywhere but the U.S IMO. Secularism seems to get a bumpy ride there.

      As always Grisham, I appreciate your contributions to my seeds, articles...and the cause/cure..

      Thanks, man. Sending a FR. Hell, I always end up on your seeds anyhow. :)

      • 2 votes
      #1.7 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:55 AM EDT
      Reply
      ndeepnow

      It will be a one world religion. You will worship the Anti-Christ.

      He will be on the scence soon. We are moving toward a One World Currency Everyday.

        Reply#2 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:23 AM EDT
        Andrew-1162039

        The evangelical Christian obsession with the end of the world is one of the reasons I sometimes doubt whether coexistence is a good end game or whether the more detrimental fantasies should be called out for being complete nonsense.

        • 2 votes
        #2.1 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:33 AM EDT
        Chickenmann

        Ndeep, you might want not to get in on this one... Just sayin.

        • 1 vote
        #2.2 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:44 PM EDT
        King Dave

        ndeepnow: It will be a one world religion.

        hopefully hedonism

        You will worship the Anti-Christ.

        Atheists don't believe in that crap.

        He will be on the scence soon

        Last week you said the anti-christ was Obama? You must now mean Rick Perry. Why is it not a woman? Like Michele Bachmann? Don't keep us in suspense. Mike Pence?

        • 1 vote
        #2.3 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:39 PM EDT
        Chickenmann

        King Dave you have it all wrong. The antichrist will be the unholy love child of Rebeccah Black and Justin Beiber.

        Get your biblical facts straight!!!!

        • 3 votes
        #2.4 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:50 PM EDT
        King Dave

        Yes, a true mystery of biblical proportions: Why is Selena Gomez with creepy Beiber?

        • 2 votes
        #2.5 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:43 AM EDT
        Chickenmann

        Simple answer: She's a lesbian.

        • 2 votes
        #2.6 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:15 AM EDT
        WillBoyd

        Simple answer: She's a lesbian

        Gomez or Beiber?

          #2.7 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
          ndeepnow

          Luke 6:22 (W)Blessed are you when men hate you, and (X)ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. 23 Be glad in that day and (Y)leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For (Z)in the same way their fathers used to [l]treat the prophets. 24 But woe to (AA)you who are rich, for (AB)you are receiving your comfort in full. 25 Woe to you who [m]are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep. 26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to [n]treat the (AC)false prophets in the same way.

            #2.8 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:29 PM EDT
            Chickenmann

            @Will- Yes.

            @ndeepnow- you cannot prove that your fairie tales are correct by quoting the freaking fairie tale! Now go to your corner, learn even the most basic level of rhetoric, and come back when you have something sensible to say!

            • 2 votes
            #2.9 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 PM EDT
            ndeepnow

            It says I'm blessed in your presence.

              #2.10 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:49 PM EDT
              Andrew-1162039

              Don't forget the cheese-makers, blessed are the cheese-makers.

              Religions that didn't encourage proselytizing and try and convince peasants their crappy lives weren't so bad obviously wouldn't last very long.

              • 1 vote
              #2.11 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:35 AM EDT
              Reply
              The Opposition

              I'm not going to pretend to know the teaching of other religions or justify prejudices by cherry-picking from their scriptures. I can only be responsible for how I conduct myself.

              Is religious co-existence possible? I don't know. Is it desirable? Of course. The alternative is war. Is that what we seek?

                Reply#3 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:22 PM EDT
                Future History

                The religions of the world already co-exist - of course, that doesn't mean it isn't a completely dysfunctional coexistence. Why should anyone entertain the possibility of the current array of religions being harmonious, when the dogma that fuels them is abjectly opposed to one another? If you are a Christian and you are living harmoniously with those of other faiths, you are basically consorting with the enemy. Don't get me wrong - it is entirely admirable that you are harmoniously coexisting, but what is the point of labeling yourself a Christian? By scripture, you are not pleasing the Christian god by doing so. You would be much better off labeling yourself a humanist, and embracing your relationship with whomever you think your creator is in a personal way. If you are willing to not follow the rules, then you do not need a book to guide this relationship. From now on, stop trying to convince yourself that that bread is your savior's flesh and that that wine is his blood. It's a sick and morbid behavior anyways.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#4 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:37 PM EDT
                Big Brother Commission

                We're already heading in that direction. The book of Revelation speaks of the harlot riding the beast: The beast is the Antichrist and the harlot is the false church. This false church will try to mix Christianity with the other religions of the world.

                Furthermore, many Muslims already look to the pope as a leader; however, they refuse to follow him until he denounces Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Nevertheless, the way the Catholic Church is going nowadays, I would not be surprised if this eventually happens; which would make way for the false church to occur.

                  Reply#5 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:43 PM EDT
                  Grisham

                  We're already heading in that direction. The book of Revelation speaks of the harlot riding the beast: The beast is the Antichrist and the harlot is the false church. This false church will try to mix Christianity with the other religions of the world.

                  Yet another interpretation. So many of them...

                  • 3 votes
                  #5.1 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:22 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  King Dave

                  Is religious co-existence desirable?

                  I would love to hear why others voted NO. Abstaining to vote is clearly a vote for NO.

                  I think religious cohesion means unfortunately, all the faiths getting together to slaughter the atheist. Problematic

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#6 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:52 AM EDT
                  Future History

                  I think religious cohesion means unfortunately, all the faiths getting together to slaughter the atheist.

                  Bring it on bitches! Lol.

                  • 3 votes
                  #6.1 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:18 AM EDT
                  WillBoyd

                  King-Dave,

                  Explain religious co-existence please?

                    #6.2 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:15 PM EDT
                    ndeepnow

                    It's going to be just the opposite. All faiths will come together to kill CHRISTIANS

                      #6.3 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:33 PM EDT
                      King Dave

                      King-Dave,

                      Explain religious co-existence please?

                      I did, "... all the faiths getting together to slaughter the atheists."

                      More seriously, in 96 when journalist Peter Bergen interviewed Bin Laden, declaring his intentions and Jihad. Video of the Taliban executing women, their terror camps, that is when many younger people realized co-existence is not possible with civility, let alone other religions.

                      Then 9/11. People who had been paying attention, immediately reject conspiracy theories as ignorance. There is very little, if at all of compelling evidence of co-existence, even with-in faiths. Muslim violence is mostly between Sunni and Shia. Catholics and Protestants.The slightest difference causes millions of death unabated today. Stoning women, suicide bombers; Who desires co-exist with that?

                      • 4 votes
                      #6.4 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:38 PM EDT
                      Chickenmann

                      @King Dave- you almost have it right imo. I would argue that a peaceful coexistence between religions is by its very nature a contradiciton in terms. Because of the amorphous nature of religion, as dictated by its (self contradictory) edicts, religion is too open to interpretation, misinterpretation, and abuse. We could no sooner have peaceful coexistence between religions than we could between ourselves as human beings, as individuals. Religion by its nature breeds fractuousness due to the (some might argue deliberatedly) huge holes in their texts, grey areas, and contradictions. And no sooner can one interpretation of any "holy" book (I'm not just looking at the bible here) be established as the one "true" interpretation than splinter groups with differing interpretations will pop up, its leaders hoping to get in on that sweet sweet god-swag.
                      So long as human beings remain human beings, and so long as religion remains religion, people will forever use the words of their "holy" books to justify what they do.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.5 - Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:26 PM EDT
                      WillBoyd

                      King Dave,

                      I asked what you meant by coexist because how I see the term may be different than what you intended.

                      Is it possible for all the religions of the world to coexist? Yes. Is it probable? No.

                      To answer the second part of your question we have to address something. Coexist and tolerate are somewhat synonymous in this instance (IMO) which then differs from incorporation of beliefs into a unified religion. The latter I see as not happening and/or not desirable by those who practice said religions.

                      Is coexistance desired? Why not? What does the believer have to fear? If his belief system is that fragile then it is not much of belief system and should be reconsidered anyway. Is that not what was at the heart of the 1st amendment; that we the people would be able to practice our religion or lack of without intrusion from the government (voice of the people); to me that speaks to toleration and coexistence.

                        #6.6 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:28 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        Al-2739446

                        Religions should be able to coexist effectively. What virtually all of them are about is some form of supreme being. How we choose to be involved with that supreme being seems tob e more cultural and personal than substantively factual. But, it is a personal experience. We are either raised to believe something or learn to believe something at some point in our lives. Why is that the source of so much controversy? What I believe and what someone else believes should have no negative effect on anyone. At worst, it should be aneutral effect.

                        Let's face it, most religions rituals and laws are man made. There is even recent research that indicates the bible has many contradictions and was written by mutiple men with varying interpretations of events that don't always coincide with historical timelines. What does all of this mean?

                        Bottom line is that we are all born in precisely the same way and we all eventually die. What happens after that is a matter of personal faith. Fighting over doctrine and how we choose to worship or not worship a supreme being really defeats the purpose of religion in the first place.

                        That is why many people believe in God, or a supreme being, but not religion. Religion has largely become spiritual corporations whose decisons are based as much on economics as they are anything spiritual. They frequently are reluctant to speak out for the oppressed or to help those who are really in need while the leaders live opulent lifestyles. Many, have refused to take principled stands on things like racism. I believe that MLK said that 10am on Sunday was the maost segregated hour in america. Most of us have seen pictures of blacks hanging from a tree while the church congregation was enjoying a picnic after services. Al ot of it is pure hypocrisy, but people need to believe what they need to believe. Someone once said that religion is the opium of the masses. But,m that may not be a bad statement if we don't confuse religion with a belief in a supreme being.

                        People need something to believe in given the position of human beings in the universe. Our releatively insignificant presence, finite life span, and fragile existences require that we believe in some power superior to us that will somehow look out for us. Religious leaders, in some cases, have taken that vulnerability and turned it into an enterprise. It should not be.

                          Reply#7 - Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:59 AM EDT
                          King Dave

                          Thank you Al for your thoughts .

                          It is odd religion expects to be tolerated, when no-where in their Holy texts is tolerance for other faiths preached. In fact violence is preached, garbage in, garbage out. We got what we expected.

                          It is also apparent from your comment, religion devalues the one fragile life we can be sure of. That is also the meaning of the beautifully phrased Karl Marx quote as well.

                          “Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people… The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness….The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo….Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and cull the living flower.” Karl Marx

                          It is time we acknowledged that no real foundation exists within the canons of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any of our other faiths for religious tolerance and religious diversity ~ Sam Harris

                          • 1 vote
                          #7.1 - Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:25 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Al-2739446

                          King Dave: You make an excellent point about the devaluation of human life. I never thought of it quite that way, but it is on point. The whole notion of religion is that we are somehow not worthy of happiness. Yet, most religions teach that God wants the best for us. Surely, God would not want us to be unhappy and devalue or lives which he/her has given us.

                          Even in the christian bible there is no real discussion of religion as we know it today. Much of what is in the bible is a depiction of cultural expressions in dealing with their concept of a supreme being. Jesus really only required that we believe in Him and treat each other as we treat ourselves. If the latter were followed by the majority of people in the world we would have far fewer problems.

                          Someone treid to tell me that religion started with Moses being handed the Ten Commandments. This person also said that this is where our sense of morality comes from. I asked why Jesus never mentione the Ten Commandments. I got no answer. I also said that suppose the Ten Commandments were really the result of a lot of dysfunction in the community and someone chronicalling that and coming up with a set of rules that would reduce that confusion. The biblse says that the people were out of control when Moses went to the mountain.

                          I guess what I am saying is that man coming up with morals and principles is not inconsistent with a belief in a supreme being who endowed us with the ability to do many things. Religious scholars argue about the meanaing of free will and the power of prayer for example. If we truly have free will, can prayer change something? I believe that there is a latin term called "deus ex machina" which means God having a direct impact on something on the earth. Is this where we are or did God give us what we need to acoomplish what we need on earth?

                          There are many questions with few answers.

                            Reply#8 - Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:18 AM EDT
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